How important are scales and theory in your guitar playing?

Do you use theory and scales in your guitar playing?


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I think this question would be valid across practically all instruments. Scales are a big part of my practice regimen....not as much now as they were years ago, but I still use them as warmup exercises before I get to work on learning something.
Eons ago, when I was in college, my jazz ensemble instructor was the bass trombonist for Clark Terry before he took the university gig. Whenever Clark was nearby, he'd drop by to visit. One lucky weekend I got to go to dinner with him and my instructor. Wanting to take advantage of this opportunity, I was not shy about peppering him with questions. One of his responses stands out in my memory.

"I've got all these ideas in my head when I'm soloing, but I just can't seem to get them to my fingers."
Clark looks up and says: "You don't know your scales, do you?"
"Of course I do. Any music major worth his salt knows his scales."
"How many octaves? Do you do just one? How many in a row? Do you just play a scale, stop and then start another one?"
He described my scale work to a T.:o
So, I began relearning my scales in multiple octaves, in quick succession and it made a huge difference in my playing and technique. His point was that without the proper technical grounding, nevermind the theory behind scales (which is useful but not necessary), that I would not progress as a player and a musician until I had mastered my scales. He was absolutely correct.:cool:
 
Even if you say you don't,you are.Some people know how to play something,yet can't articulate what it is they're doing.Knowing scales and theory just gives you a foundation to work from,and more importantly a common ground with musicians from different backgrounds or play different instruments.
 
I think this question would be valid across practically all instruments. Scales are a big part of my practice regimen....not as much now as they were years ago, but I still use them as warmup exercises before I get to work on learning something.
Eons ago, when I was in college, my jazz ensemble instructor was the bass trombonist for Clark Terry before he took the university gig. Whenever Clark was nearby, he'd drop by to visit. One lucky weekend I got to go to dinner with him and my instructor. Wanting to take advantage of this opportunity, I was not shy about peppering him with questions. One of his responses stands out in my memory.

"I've got all these ideas in my head when I'm soloing, but I just can't seem to get them to my fingers."
Clark looks up and says: "You don't know your scales, do you?"
"Of course I do. Any music major worth his salt knows his scales."
"How many octaves? Do you do just one? How many in a row? Do you just play a scale, stop and then start another one?"
He described my scale work to a T.:o
So, I began relearning my scales in multiple octaves, in quick succession and it made a huge difference in my playing and technique. His point was that without the proper technical grounding, nevermind the theory behind scales (which is useful but not necessary), that I would not progress as a player and a musician until I had mastered my scales. He was absolutely correct.:cool:

A friend from way back used to rent a rehearsal room next to Eric Johnson (or knew the owner who rented the room to EJ - can't remember which way anymore :( ). He said Eric would come in at 11pm and do only scales until the morning. All night long. Just scales.
 
A friend from way back used to rent a rehearsal room next to Eric Johnson (or knew the owner who rented the room to EJ - can't remember which way anymore :( ). He said Eric would come in at 11pm and do only scales until the morning. All night long. Just scales.

I can hear that in his music, He is my girlfriends favorite guitar player, It is hard for me to compete!:o
VP
PS
My girlfriend is not cantthinkofname!
 
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Some people know how to play something,yet can't articulate what it is they're doing

I'm self taught and play strictly by ear/feel. I can play all sorts of chords and scales but I don't even think/care about the names of them. I just know where to put my fingers to get the sound that I want.[This approach works with women as well :D] This frees up my mind to concentrate on my singing and allows me to sing and play things at the same time.
 
I'm self taught and play strictly by ear/feel. I can play all sorts of chords and scales but I don't even think/care about the names of them. I just know where to put my fingers to get the sound that I want.[This approach works with women as well :D] This frees up my mind to concentrate on my singing and allows me to sing and play things at the same time.

The bassist in my band is exactly the same way. He knows his fretboard inside out by ear, but you try to name off a chord progression to him and he's lost as a goose.
 
Everyone uses theory, because everything you can do is covered by theory - some people just don't know how it relates.


The real problem is thinking of theory as a series of rules - its not. Its a language, primarily useful in telling other people WTF you are hearing in your head or what you are playing. My two least favorite musician behaviors are saying either, "I don't want to learn theory because I don't want to be limited by the rules," or "You have to know the rules before you break them." Both groups miss the point completely. There are no rules in music theory. There are rules when you are doing an assignment for a music theory class - because that's how you learn what the teacher is trying to teach you - but that's a whole other thing. And of course, the first group almost never plays anything that you learn in your first week of theory class. As for the second group, well, they also never break the "rules", and are usually so bound up in what they learned that they actually try to use theory as a writing tool. Not the best way to make music.

So, yeah, I use theory - to translate what I'm hearing in my head. But I don't use it consciously. It's just there.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I've completely forgotten everything I learned about music theory...maybe its important to some composing but I think a good ear for music is far more important..

mind you I hardly excel as a musician :)
 
I'm self taught and play strictly by ear/feel. I can play all sorts of chords and scales but I don't even think/care about the names of them. I just know where to put my fingers to get the sound that I want.[This approach works with women as well :D] This frees up my mind to concentrate on my singing and allows me to sing and play things at the same time.

You know, I spent about 10 years studying theory in depth. It doesn't seem to get in the way of my singing.


The basic concept with theory is that you learn everything you can, and practice it until you can do it in your sleep. Then, as soon as you get on stage, you forget all of it. Of course, you have to practice that part, too. To be sure, though, I'm not sitting there when I play thinking, O.K., this next chord is the V7 of II, and then we are going to play a II9, a flat II#9, to the I. I'm just playing.

On the other hand, if I need to tell a bass player the form and the chord progresion quickly, it is a lot easier to just say, "rhythm changes in Bflat." than to sit there and say, "put your finger here for two beats, here for two beats," etc......


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
The real problem is thinking of theory as a series of rules - its not. Its a language,


That's a great way to state it. I guess theory was derived because someone said, "That sounds good. Why is that??" and sat down to work out the why's and then came up with the annotation.
 
On the other hand, if I need to tell a bass player the form and the chord progresion quickly, it is a lot easier to just say, "rhythm changes in Bflat." than to sit there and say, "put your finger here for two beats, here for two beats," etc......

get a bass player that can HEAR the right notes.
 
As light said, everyone uses it whether or not they're aware of it.

For professional musicians its essential imo as a tool of communication.

For musicians like me who write and perform their own music, its a very helpful tool. So many times i've been writing a part, knowing already that i'll be harmonising it diatonically in thirds, and knowing exactly how to do that. Having to sit their working it out "by ear" is certainly an option. But i'll take the quicker one thanks.

The only thing i dislike is the people who play "by ear" and who seem to hate people who know what they're doing theory wise. I don't see the need. Ultimately, for me at least, the aim is to get the music thats in my head, out into peoples ears. I don't care how that happens.
 
Like a lot of musicians, I learned to play by ear. I don't see anything wrong with this approach but it does put some restrictions on ones playing. After years of fumbling and stumbling along I decided I wanted to know why some things work and some don't, that is when I began to study theory. Understanding a bit of the "why" didn't help my dexterity but it certainly has helped me to make a number of improvements to my playing. I now conect aspects of music that I did not believe possible before learning a little bit of theory. I still don't understand a lot of theory but every time i learn (and understand) something new it seems to open a new area in my playing.
 
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