Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 108

Thread: Guitar Tuning and Temperament Primer (revised)

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    11,510
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Sign in to disable this ad
    Doesn't seem to me to be a great mystery about what Buzz does, what he's doing isn't equal temperament. Says so right in the Roman article. And it's true that you can get a better compromise than equal temperament on the usual major chords as commonly played on guitar.

    That will force some other chords, perhaps less common ones, further out of tune than they would be under equal temperament. This is why classical music had to go equal temperament once it got less consonant (although if you're going for real kickass dissonance, playing in a distant key in just temperament is the way to go! )

    Since guitarists mainly follow 17th century notions of tonality, Buzz probably works fairly well. But then so does slightly detuning the top three strings, and that's free

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    In Jimistoners head
    Age
    58
    Posts
    8,357
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked 170 Times in 135 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by mshilarious View Post
    Doesn't seem to me to be a great mystery about what Buzz does, what he's doing isn't equal temperament. Says so right in the Roman article. And it's true that you can get a better compromise than equal temperament on the usual major chords as commonly played on guitar.
    Only in one key.

    That will force some other chords, perhaps less common ones, further out of tune than they would be under equal temperament. .This is why classical music had to go equal temperament once it got less consonant (although if you're going for real kickass dissonance, playing in a distant key in just temperament is the way to go! )
    The history of the widespread adoption if 12tet is far more complex than that bit if you want to surmise it in a few words it has more to with the development of sonata form and the desire to modulate mid piece as a compositional tool. Combined with a desire for fixed pitched instruments to play with and along side variable pitch instruments and the final realisation that no temperament could ever be perfect.
    Since guitarists mainly follow 17th century notions of tonality, Buzz probably works fairly well. But then so does slightly detuning the top three strings, and that's free
    I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, what notion of tonality do guitarists follow and how was it a prominent notion in the 17th century.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    11,510
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by muttley600 View Post
    Only in one key.
    Well you can get improvements in a couple of related keys. So you could play in C-G tolerably, but you'd need to retune for E.


    I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, what notion of tonality do guitarists follow and how was it a prominent notion in the 17th century.
    Well it had to do with the lack of things like valves on brass, etc. When half of the orchestra had to stop and insert different lengths of pipe onto their instrument to play a full scale, it put a damper on that sort of activity.

    Oversimplified, yes, but there are a looooot of guitars that for example have never played in Bb, unless they drop their tuning a half-step across the board. And many of them who have, probably two-thirds used a capo So I'm talking about the G-C-D-Em open chords strummers here.

    I just worked out the maths behind what I presume Buzz does; wouldn't it have to force all notes on the compensated strings above the 12th fret sharp? But maybe that is tolerable to most guitarists who only play notes up there either really fast or bent

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Planet Earth, America
    Age
    46
    Posts
    198
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    266423
    I have good luck with tuning the b string on my Strat just slightly flat. And i mean very slightly. And maybe the g string even more slightly than that, if i'm playing certain chords. The imperfections of the guitar are what alows us to personalize it.
    Take the time to tune up, then shut up and play.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,092
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    4230046
    This topic is very interesting from an academic point of view but has little relevance in the real world...

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Why not just outfit our guitars with True Temperament frets ? Many luthiers are doing it these days. The frets look wierd but it does not affect playability in any way - bends and fretting are the same as usual.

    An eg. can be found here -

    http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/articl...retboard-.html

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    In Jimistoners head
    Age
    58
    Posts
    8,357
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked 170 Times in 135 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Wozza1970 View Post
    Why not just outfit our guitars with True Temperament frets ? Many luthiers are doing it these days. The frets look wierd but it does not affect playability in any way - bends and fretting are the same as usual.

    An eg. can be found here -

    http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/articl...retboard-.html
    A fantastic idea if the rest of the band/group/ensemble/orchestra are also tuned to the same temperament. Otherwise a complete waste of time and effort. Add to that that you will only ever be able to use one single gauge and type of string on that guitar and you arrive at a very limited instrument in terms of flexibility.

    I would always caution against believing the claims of anyone who suggests they have found a miracle cure for the problems that intonation presents especially if they litter the claims with their own terms such as "dynamic intonation" and slap a TM statement by each one. There is also so much that is just plain wrong with the claims made in that article it is hard to know where to begin.

    Seriously, learn about what is going on with a vibrating string string, learn to accommodate it and then learn to live with it. There really is no other way.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    In Jimistoners head
    Age
    58
    Posts
    8,357
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked 170 Times in 135 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by LI_Slim View Post
    This topic is very interesting from an academic point of view but has little relevance in the real world...
    It's far from academic, it's a very real and evident real world phenomenon.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,092
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    4230046
    Quote Originally Posted by muttley600 View Post
    It's far from academic, it's a very real and evident real world phenomenon.

    It's a real phenomenon but players just tune and play. And now that most people use tuners we just check and adjust quickly all the time.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    In Jimistoners head
    Age
    58
    Posts
    8,357
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked 170 Times in 135 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by LI_Slim View Post
    It's a real phenomenon but players just tune and play. And now that most people use tuners we just check and adjust quickly all the time.
    Yep, thats fine in some situations. Many players the better they get start to recognize that certain intervals and chords don't sound right. They get frustrated and start to blame the setup and the instrument. The board here is full of examples of this. This thread is an attempt to provide an explanation for why this is and what you can practically do about it. As I say it's a phenomenon that exists on all fretted instruments, wind instruments, brass instruments piano's and pretty much any other instrument that generates a sound mechanically.

    If you are happy just tuning up and playing thats fine, but it is far from purely an academic discussion.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Guitar tuning and temperament.
    By muttley600 in forum Guitars and Basses
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: 10-16-2009, 13:28
  2. guitar tuning
    By watash in forum Newbies
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-10-2006, 14:47
  3. quick/dirty rock guitar mic primer?
    By arena rock in forum Microphones
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-02-2004, 09:22
  4. Tuning Up The Guitar
    By BB2 in forum Guitars and Basses
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-19-2000, 21:08

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •