Guitar intonation problem

rfpd

Member
So, I'm fixing my guitar intonation, everthing ok for the E,A,D and G string. B string will get there, but the screw is on the limit. However the E (1st string or the high pitched one) will not get there, doesn't matter how I move the screw in the bridge back and fourth to the limit it seems to always sound the same. Besides that, I've tried adjusting strings height, didn't work.
 
So, I'm fixing my guitar intonation, everthing ok for the E,A,D and G string. B string will get there, but the screw is on the limit. However the E (1st string or the high pitched one) will not get there, doesn't matter how I move the screw in the bridge back and fourth to the limit it seems to always sound the same. Besides that, I've tried adjusting strings height, didn't work.
My experience is that it's usually the low strings that run out of room because they're the ones being pulled back, but if the bridge is in the right place, and the nut cut properly, there should be enough room to intonate most strings if you use regular or a gauge heavier/lighter.

What kind of guitar is it, or I guess, what kind of bridge, and what gauge strings are you putting on?

Also, if a string does not seem to be changing regardless of what you are doing, it suggests either the string is "false" and needs replaced, or there's something else in the setup going on that's causing it. Having a pickup too close to the strings can create problems, as well as frets that are slightly high.

And, assuming you're using any of the modern clip-on or inline digital tuners, can you post a video of you setting the intonation of those 2 strings, e.g., showing the string tuned to pitch open, and then fretted at the 12th fret (for starters)?
 
Try loosening the strings when adjusting the limit screw. Sometimes it kind of binds on the saddle and you can turn it and nothing happens. Also, dead strings cause this all the time. Are they new? If so, they might be defective. The screws should go in a pretty standardized pattern where the lowest 3 all progressively shorten, then the G is a bit further back than the D, and the two top strings shorten. Like this: https://www.guitarfetish.com/assets/images/products/bridges/B03_b.jpg
If you get far from that pattern something is binding, you have dead strings, or some other rarer problem you'll have to figure out.
 
My experience is that it's usually the low strings that run out of room because they're the ones being pulled back, but if the bridge is in the right place, and the nut cut properly, there should be enough room to intonate most strings if you use regular or a gauge heavier/lighter.

What kind of guitar is it, or I guess, what kind of bridge, and what gauge strings are you putting on?

Also, if a string does not seem to be changing regardless of what you are doing, it suggests either the string is "false" and needs replaced, or there's something else in the setup going on that's causing it. Having a pickup too close to the strings can create problems, as well as frets that are slightly high.

And, assuming you're using any of the modern clip-on or inline digital tuners, can you post a video of you setting the intonation of those 2 strings, e.g., showing the string tuned to pitch open, and then fretted at the 12th fret (for starters)?

I used two tuners, one from my digital stompbox and one from guitar rig. I first tuned the 12th harmonic to E (6th string example), then played the 12th note to see if it matched.

My guitar is a fender squier bullet strat, inverted because I'm left handed, I made that modification 3 years ago, I always knew it was not intonated but I never bothered since I play more often the acoustic ahah. Might be the strings, I haven't replaced them in a long time, which ones do you advice?
 
Don't intonate the harmonic. Get the open string in tune, and the (fretted) 12th fret octave note. Start with a fresh set of strings.

Fenders all come with 9s, and I actually think whoever makes the Fender strings are fine, but I use Ernie Ball Super Slinky sets without prejudice. I'm not that picky. (I use regular Slinky's, i.e., 10s on my EPI LP Special II - kind of a short scale bolt neck LP thing - I call it the LP Leo would have built. More fun than the real LP I had for many years, and pounds lighter! But I digress...) Anyway, if you bought it new, it came with 9s. 10s are Ok, too, but 2-step bends are harder, and you'll have to probably diddle with the tremolo block tension if you change the gauge, as well as potential nut slots binding (don't forget graphite in those when restringing).

Strats (unless it's one of those rarer hardtail Bullets) are a bit more finicky than other guitars because of the floating bridge, but it's not angled, so I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get it intonated even with it strung up lefty.
 
I was just looking at a video which pointed out that the scale length of a LP as opposed to a Strat made correct intonation impossible(I believe it was 24.* " scale as opposed to a 25.* scale, I cant remember the exact figures). I have found that raising or lowering the bridge saddle can give me more adjustment in length also, as long as I don't go over board. Since if you change the height you are also changing the length slightly
 
I've got a 50's Classic MIM Strat with the tremolo bridge. Recently I began using the amp sim's tuner and found that this new Strat's
intonation is way off.

Tuning to open strings, chords sound fine to my ear, but they're not so sensitive to fine tunings. When I check the tuning at the
12th fret nearly all strings are higher by 10-15 cents and fretting lower notes produces similar readings. Like I'm running a built-in
capo.

Looking at the adjustment screws, they all seem to have plenty of room except the bottom E. The low E's spring is compressed nearly
twice as much as the hi E's.
 
I just spent a few days checking the nut slots on all my guitars. I picked up a nut file set not too long ago, so this was on my to-do list.
I've got a lot of guitars...and maybe 4 were near perfect, all the rest needed the nut slots cut lower and balanced out.
It's a small thing, and might help 10-20%...but it does make a difference.

Also, once you have your nut slots right...or if they already are...you have to start with the neck/truss rod setup...then adjust your action and your pickup height...then do the intonation. If you have bridge saddles that can be individually adjusted for height, make sure they follow the neck radius curve, and not just make them all the same height.
For intonation, my preferred method is pressed string at the 5th and then match the pressed string at the 17th. You jog the saddle forward back to where they match as close as possible...or they both "equally as close as possible, either plus or minus. I find this to work the best for me.

I don't do the open string/harmonic thing. That's only good if you play mostly in the first few frets and you do a lot of open chords...but if you play the whole neck, with a lot of leads plus full/barre chords...then open string intonation is not going to get you there...the pressed string method will be more accurate, but it takes a bit more time. I then also tune by pressing the strings, usually at around the 7th fret, which is about the midpoint of the most playable range of the neck from the 1st to the 17th fret...(I don't get too hung up about stuff past the 17th fret...it will fall into place with the above intonation & tuning method.
Just make sure you press with the same pressure as when you generally play.
 
I have, in the past, adjusted saddles, truss, height, and so on.....and gotten my strat WAY out of whack....only to ultimately figure out the strings were the problem.

So my chiseled in stone rule is this:
When there is any problem whatsoever, change the strings. Even If the strings are brand new!
A $5 set of strings will save you $100 worth of stress.
 
Just a thought from an old Bottle Jockey? Could you use a capo to give consistent pressure for the exercise?

Dave.
 
IF you made a leftie out of a rightie, did you just invert the nut and saddle?
It's a strat, so no saddle to invert, but the nut, of course, should have been swapped around so the slot sizes are appropriate for the strings.

And, as [MENTION=94267]miroslav[/MENTION]'s post points out, getting the slots right is important. Might not be an issue all the time, but on a R->L conversion, I'd probably start with a a new nut, maybe one of those graph-tech precut things and work the slots to insure the string is breaking right at the fingerboard edge. If it's resting at the back (tuner side), you'll never get the intonation close.
 
I have, in the past, adjusted saddles, truss, height, and so on.....and gotten my strat WAY out of whack....only to ultimately figure out the strings were the problem.

So my chiseled in stone rule is this:
When there is any problem whatsoever, change the strings. Even If the strings are brand new!
A $5 set of strings will save you $100 worth of stress.

My "new" Strat was GC's only one and of course that means it was in their floor display, so I have no idea how old this guitar is or how old/used these strings are. I really like, and have become accustomed to these factory strings, so I'll get me a new set sometime this week and see what happens.

I will say this - these strings haven't stayed in tune since I've been playing it these past 6 weeks. After sitting overnight, most go sharp one night then flat the next - the room temp is not altered. And I only give the tremolo the lightest touch at one point in a song - just enough to barely make it warble. I'm not pressing or pulling, just slight fingertip touches.

I'll start with new strings and see how far that gets me.

Thanks!

Just a thought from an old Bottle Jockey? Could you use a capo to give consistent pressure for the exercise?

Dave.

I had the same thought. That would free up a hand so I could eat pizza while adjusting.. :D
 
...

I don't do the open string/harmonic thing. That's only good if you play mostly in the first few frets and you do a lot of open chords...but if you play the whole neck, with a lot of leads plus full/barre chords...then open string intonation is not going to get you there...the pressed string method will be more accurate, but it takes a bit more time. I then also tune by pressing the strings, usually at around the 7th fret, which is about the midpoint of the most playable range of the neck from the 1st to the 17th fret...(I don't get too hung up about stuff past the 17th fret...it will fall into place with the above intonation & tuning method...

Everything feels and plays great on my guitar, just the intonation is off and it won't stay in tune after sitting overnight (see previous post). But I'm no semi-luthier, so..

I do most of my playing in the first few frets with open chords and barre chords up to A (5th fret), with a rare B (7th fret).
Anything else I do chord-wise past the 5th fret is some form of open chord formation. I don't play much lead, and when I do it's more
like a busy bass part with no bends.
 
Spat, definitely try new strings. Intonation is awful on old strings. Does it sit overnight in a case or out of one? Fluctuations in humidity can cause things to move. It's not just temp. And both will fluctuate a bit each night. If the strings are too high when you depress them notes will go sharp. Try to keep the action 2mm on the low E for the best compromise of tone and intonation. Maybe check the tuning pegs are tight and also lubricated. It shouldn't be changing every night if it's cased. Out of a case I'd expect minor changes since wood moves with temp and humidity, and those are going to change in a house overnight.
 
Spat, definitely try new strings. Intonation is awful on old strings. Does it sit overnight in a case or out of one? Fluctuations in humidity can cause things to move. It's not just temp. And both will fluctuate a bit each night. If the strings are too high when you depress them notes will go sharp. Try to keep the action 2mm on the low E for the best compromise of tone and intonation. Maybe check the tuning pegs are tight and also lubricated. It shouldn't be changing every night if it's cased. Out of a case I'd expect minor changes since wood moves with temp and humidity, and those are going to change in a house overnight.

Yeah...real old strings are not going to help...but brand new strings also need to settle a bit, some stretching and playing, for the best consistency.

I do 2.5mm on the low E and 2mm on the high E...since the low E travels more when it vibrates.
Of course...you really need to start with the neck/truss rod, and then go from there...if it's too loose, the wood may be reacting too much to the environment, plus the neck may have too much bow.
 
I do 2.5mm on the low E and 2mm on the high E...since the low E travels more when it vibrates.

Yeah I actually like the sound of higher action -- it's a more pure tone. But for a guitar with intonation problems at 2mm you can probably rule out string height as the problem. Above that and it's a variable since it could cause the string to go sharp depressing that much. A lot of the setup is feel...like I'll set it at height xyz and then feel how bends are and harder strumming and adjust from there to get the fine balance. But, since he's trying to rule out intonation issues I think 2mm is good for that.
 
Spat, definitely try new strings. Intonation is awful on old strings. Does it sit overnight in a case or out of one? Fluctuations in humidity can cause things to move. It's not just temp. And both will fluctuate a bit each night. If the strings are too high when you depress them notes will go sharp. Try to keep the action 2mm on the low E for the best compromise of tone and intonation. Maybe check the tuning pegs are tight and also lubricated. It shouldn't be changing every night if it's cased. Out of a case I'd expect minor changes since wood moves with temp and humidity, and those are going to change in a house overnight.

It's a Strat, so no pegs. It sits in a soft gig bag in my closet overnight. Room temp and humidity are fairly constant - 80-F daytime/78-F nights. I have nothing to measure action. Tuning holds while playing and the action feels great to me - like butter.

Yeah...real old strings are not going to help...but brand new strings also need to settle a bit, some stretching and playing, for the best consistency...

They're on my list this week, then a week's worth of playing.
 
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