Guitar intonation problem

6 weeks + 'sitting in the store' time, yeah those strings should have been chucked a long time ago. Intonation problem is the first sign I notice of strings getting old.
 
I was just checking out GC's setup services on their website, then I looked for reviews and found zero good reviews. My local GC has drastically reduced it's number of employees and their "repair center" has been reduced to a small counter in the main room and is rarely 'manned'. I think I'd be taking my chances on getting a good setup there. If a new set of strings helps my intonation even a little bit I think I'll try setting the string height at the bridge myself - see how far that gets me.
 
I was just checking out GC's setup services on their website, then I looked for reviews and found zero good reviews. My local GC has drastically reduced it's number of employees and their "repair center" has been reduced to a small counter in the main room and is rarely 'manned'. I think I'd be taking my chances on getting a good setup there. If a new set of strings helps my intonation even a little bit I think I'll try setting the string height at the bridge myself - see how far that gets me.
I just googled and there's a place called "Guitar Repair of Tampa Bay" that's in Tampa that has a lot of good reviews. I'd give them a call.

The GC (about 3 miles from me) they just opened a few months back seems to be limping along. I can't figure out what's going on there - the mic cabinet was empty the last time I was there, and a used Ibanez jazz box I was interested in was Ok, but they couldn't find the case it was supposed to have. I asked about any case, and the kid suggested a case I literally just saw returned (because it was missing the [TSA lock] keys) was offered, at the full price. I'm not optimistic about their future.
 
We could probably just talk you through it because a proper setup is super easy so long as there's nothing wrong (warps, ramping, etc) with the neck itself.
 
We could probably just talk you through it because a proper setup is super easy so long as there's nothing wrong (warps, ramping, etc) with the neck itself.

Appreciate that, man! I'll break-in a new set of strings and let you know. The neck feels and plays great so there shouldn't be
too much if anything wrong there - I'm assuming. Just eyeballing the neck it's not noticeably off in any way. I have no way to
measure fine increments though, just a tape measure and a wooden ruler, but I've got just about any size screwdriver tip you
can imagine..
 
No guitar center setups please. Do you want a minimum wage, don't know shit 'tech' touching your stuff????
Anyone good will be on their own or working for a good music shop
 
I just googled and there's a place called "Guitar Repair of Tampa Bay" that's in Tampa that has a lot of good reviews. I'd give them a call...

Wow! Thank you! I scooted over to the website and found pretty much nothing but 5-star reviews. A couple of hours before I read your post, I located an independent guy about 12 miles from me. I emailed with the particulars asking if he'll do the work and how much - haven't heard yet. Depending on what a new set of strings sounds like, I'll attempt setting the intonation (at least) myself first.. with a little help from some of you here.

No guitar center setups please. Do you want a minimum wage, don't know shit 'tech' touching your stuff????
Anyone good will be on their own or working for a good music shop

:D Agree with that. When I lived in Maryland, I took all my stuff to Mike Dove in... Rockville, I think it was - if I recall correctly. I can't drive that far this time :eek:
 
spantini;4494214? I located an independent guy about 12 miles from me. I emailed with the particulars asking if he'll do the work and how much - [/QUOTE said:
Don't be scared off if whoever you take it to recommends doing a new nut and a fret dress

First off you converted a righty to a lefty. I heard no mention of doing a proper nut. And your original is just cheap plastic.

Good intonation depends on a few factors. Proper nut, good strings, neck adjusted properly and the actual position of the saddles.
However the most important factor that people overlook, is having the frets leveled and properly crowned. This puts the highest point of the fret dead center. If the crown is off due to wear and or lousy fret work your note will never be quite right. The string will start vibrating before or after the fret slot. You want it dead center.

On any fretless instruments intonation is in the hands of the player, on a fretted instrument your notes are each individual fret. With modern cnc manufacturing, the slots are pretty accurate. Discrepancies occur in the final dressing of the frets and how they wear.

:D
 
Don't be scared off if whoever you take it to recommends doing a new nut and a fret dress

First off you converted a righty to a lefty. I heard no mention of doing a proper nut. And your original is just cheap plastic.

Good intonation depends on a few factors. Proper nut, good strings, neck adjusted properly and the actual position of the saddles.
However the most important factor that people overlook, is having the frets leveled and properly crowned. This puts the highest point of the fret dead center. If the crown is off due to wear and or lousy fret work your note will never be quite right. The string will start vibrating before or after the fret slot. You want it dead center.

On any fretless instruments intonation is in the hands of the player, on a fretted instrument your notes are each individual fret. With modern cnc manufacturing, the slots are pretty accurate. Discrepancies occur in the final dressing of the frets and how they wear.

:D

I think you've got me mixed up with @rfpd in post #4 Guitar intonation problem .. he's the one with the lefty conversion.
 
Don't be scared off if whoever you take it to recommends doing a new nut and a fret dress... I heard no mention of doing a proper nut. And your original is just cheap plastic.

Good intonation depends on a few factors. Proper nut, good strings, neck adjusted properly and the actual position of the saddles.
However the most important factor that people overlook, is having the frets leveled and properly crowned. This puts the highest point of the fret dead center. If the crown is off due to wear and or lousy fret work your note will never be quite right. The string will start vibrating before or after the fret slot. You want it dead center.

On any fretless instruments intonation is in the hands of the player, on a fretted instrument your notes are each individual fret. With modern cnc manufacturing, the slots are pretty accurate. Discrepancies occur in the final dressing of the frets and how they wear. :D

Thanks again. Now.. mine is the MIM Classic 50's Strat, when buying the USA Strat are these issues with lower quality and workmanship not a problem? Is that what the extra $500-$1000 gets you?
 
So, fret slots are cut by a CNC machine? Last I saw on "How its Made" they were done on a machine with multiple saw blades!

BTW when my son bought his Rikky (336?) the second fret down from the nut (F# on E string?) was about 1mm out making that whole position sharp. Was a second hand guitar from a local shop and DAD of course had to take it back. At first they did not quite believe it but you could actually see it and definitely hear it. Fair play, they got it fixed in about a week and gave him some money back. Pretty good repair. You could jeeeust about see it but at least ten years on now I doubt you can.

Dave.
Dave.
 
[MENTION=89697]ecc83[/MENTION] Most big name factories have moved to CNC. The multiple blade method, while still in use in some smaller companies, is pretty much 18th and 19th century technology. :) Today even a small company like Tom Anderson guitatworks with less than 15 employees uses CNC.
As to Rickenbacker, I don't know about their current set up, but even in the 80s they were pretty dark age. On the basses, the routing channels for the wiring weren't even routed! The channel was made on a drill press with a forstner bit. ?
 
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Thanks again. Now.. mine is the MIM Classic 50's Strat, when buying the USA Strat are these issues with lower quality and workmanship not a problem? Is that what the extra $500-$1000 gets you?

I think the MIM stuff, in a lot of ways, is better than the US models. Electronics aren't as good, but build quality is good.

Price difference has more to do with US labor costs being higher.

Now when you get to the custom shop, you're starting to get into some good guitars, but the price is crazy.
I'm not a fan, because they're charging bucket loads of money only to produce an instrument that was their standard run of the mill guitar in the 5Os and 60s

The highway one reliced series was discontinued because they were seroius competition to the custom shop relic stuff.
Every highway one I've seen was as good as the custom shop equivalent at a fraction of the price.

The 'bones' in most modern offerings is generally pretty good. On higher end stuff that is much more expensive, more time can be spent on final assembly and set up details.


But with a good set up, by a skilled guy, a MIM strat will be as good as anything.
:D
 
I've owned USA and Mexican Fenders (and Japanese, too). The USA ones are the best, as would be expected. The electronics/PUPs are all great out of the box, frets great, binding perfect, nut totally playable, etc. The money you will sink into a Mexican version to get all that stuff as good as it should be could have went toward buying a used American made guitar. The American builds have better quality wood that doesn't warp as easily, and they are lighter. So it's more than just electronics (though electronics and PUPs are a huge part of the price, as is labor, as mentioned). They also have better resale value because buyers know they won't have to sink money into components.

I agree regarding the custom shop. Those are basically the guitars that were being made 50 years ago. I've only played three. Two where excellent. The other had a very stiff and unfriendly feel to it. IMO if you want a guitar build like one from the 1960s then you go with a Danocaster. They're a way better deal than custom shop and actually better guitars (due to his neck finishing and pickup matching, voicing, etc). You can find them used for around 2k, and Custom Shop is like 4.5k. No brainer. Players like Julian Lage are using Danocasters to gig.

Now is a Mexican strat bad? No. But you have to consider alternatives and depreciation, etc. After all that, I think American is a better buy. Mexican will get the job done and are great for gigging, etc. IME the Japanese Fenders from the 90s had the worst electronics, and they weren't even cheap guitars. These are the worst values because they have shot up in price due to some misconception they're great guitars. They aren't. I owned one for over a decade. A friend of mine has a Korean tele. I didn't even know Fender made guitars in Korea. I'm not sure what year it it. Good guitar, though. In my limited time with it, it seemed better than the Mexican and Japanese ones.

I recently played a brand new reissue MIM Mustang Bass in a shop. I couldn't believe how heavy it was. Weighed much more than my MIA fender P/J bass, which is a larger bass. I've had the pleasure of playing a 70s Mustang bass...the latter so much nicer. The reissues aren't close. It wasn't just weight, but it's overall build. Things that are hard to define. There was a real joy in playing the 70s one. It had a fluid feel to it. The MIM reissue felt like a really heavy toy.

I don't mean to bash MIM. It has its place and the setup and person playing it matter most. Just sharing my experiences with these. I actually owned a MIM bass. It was a good bass, but it had a lot of these drawbacks. I've owned 3 American Fender basses and all beat it (in feel mostly but sound, too). I became better at bass faster because the instrument was actually a joy to play. Some of the differences you won't know unless you have both in your hand and can compare "feel" as well as sound. Just a head's up. Price on MIM went up $100 a few years ago due to lumber costs, so that's skewed the value aspect, too.
 
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I think a lot of it has to do with what you know and see going in.
Memories from way back...always drift or become something more over time. :D

If someone just put guitars in your hand...and you couldn't see the labels (where/when) they were made...the differences wouldn't be as obvious.
Also...picking up 1-2 guitars is not enough to say all "XYZ" made guitars are _________.

I sat in the music store and tried out about a half dozen USA made Teles when I bought my '52 RI way back (the one I recently sold)...and the others didn't sound as good, feel as good or play as good as the one I finally picked out.... but that's "to me"...someone else might have a different view.
Not to mention, I'm enjoying the $150-$200 guitars a recently bought...about 10 time more than I did my '52 RI Tele...but boy, the Tele sure was a looker, and if I just saw it mixed in with these that I just bought cheap...sitting in a store and I was going to gravitate toward one...it would probably be the '52 Tele.

Perception is easily skewed, and memories and nostalgia usually blurred. ;)

I agree though that the setup and the person playing it matter most.
 
I agree though that the setup and the person playing it matter most.

Yeah, definitely. Guitars are kind of like wine where it becomes subjective as you move up in price, and people can become snobs (this is especially true in acoustic guitar markets) over little things.

Personally, I feel and notice the small differences, but someone else might not. I grew up in the 90s/2000s so I don't have any affinity for old guitars, but have owned many bad ones as a kid that killed my hand so I can "feel" a good one b/c of that. At least I think so? I'd be up for a blind test to see if that's true!

Whether something is worth it depends on if you can feel those things, if so do they matter, and how much you can spend. There's a big equation there that you have to balance.

Anyway, I hope that last post didn't come off as snobby or bashing cheap guitars. Just was sharing experiences off the cuff. Many of my favorite bands tour with Squires and things just because of theft/abuse, and they sound good.
 
Anyway, I hope that last post didn't come off as snobby or bashing cheap guitars.


Nope...I was just trying to say that you don't know what you have until you play it...and it's too easy to get swayed by a name/brand even when you're not trying.

You got guys who picked up really sweet Epiphone LPs...suddenly feeling like they had to get the Gibson LP in order to feel they had a worthy guitar.
Peer pressure and all that nonsense.

I personally don't have a problem playing cheaper guitars or even using cheaper audio gear...if it does the job...but I certainly do appreciate the Hi-Q stuff too.
Mostly I hate spending stupid money...but I don't have a problem spending money when it's worth it. :)
 
[MENTION=188609]Nola[/MENTION]
All the Mexican stuff utilizes the same wood components that came from the Corona plant, (as in made there). It's then shipped over the border for finishing and assembly.
Labor south of the border is much cheaper.
Yes, there's the stigma of MIM which affects resale. value.

For me the benchmark for fender instruments is the ones produced in the 5Os and 60s.

Fender USA has gone for the most part soooo far away from that except for the high dollar reissues. I haven't been happy with ANYTHING US made (with the custom shop exception), since they started screwing up in the 70s.

It's ironic that the value has skyrocketed because of it being 'vintage', Yet most in the industry considered 70s fenders to be dog shit.
I still do, yet apreciate the value. :)

In my opinion, based on having thousands of Fenders in my bench over the years, here is 'my' pecking order of fenders.

Vintage.(pre 70s)

Japanese ( with the exception of the photo flame and goofy 80s experimental guitars)
But their reissues were phenomenal as they had a huge collection of vintage instruments to copy. The 80's was a period of a huge exodus of vintage instruments going to Japan. It drove the prices up like crazy.. These instruments didnt come back to the US till the yen crashed (mid/late ninetys?)

Custom shop. Overall pretty nice except pricey
MIM.
American are last on my list

All this is based not on 'Romantic memories' but day in and out interactions on my bench.

Why in particular I have a fondness for MIM, is the ease of which I can make it feel, and play like a vintage instument.

Because it is an inexpensive platform, many players. Not noodlers, but real players, have no aversion to 'upgrading' it.

You'd be surprised at how many session players in the 80's would buy a 200 dollar Japanese Squire. We'd do some fretwork, throw away the electronics, put in some switchcraft and cts components, add some Seymour duncans and then.......records would be made on these guitars.

Ok, I've rambled long enough.
:D

Edit for irony.
There's a stigma on MIM, yet both made in USA or made in Mexico, they are made by Hispanic workers. It's not all Caucasian Master Luthiers. Lol.:D
 
Good stuff, RFR.
I've owned like 10-15 Fenders and played a few hundred in the shops, but that's far from thousands on the bench where you really get to dig in to them. How do you feel about the American AVRI? Most of my recent experience has been with them, and that's what I've mostly been referring to with my opinions. Have you ever had a Danocaster come across your bench? If so, what were your thoughts?
 
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