The Fingerstyle Guitar Thread

[andyhix]

I'm mostly a flatpicker/strummer but I've just recently tried to get a little more adept at fingerstyle guitar. I'm right now just trying to get a bit of thumb independence to get that alternating bass line to become a bit more automatic. But the whole thing is a pretty foreign to me (but also pretty exciting - to be actually learning some new technique, rather than playing the same old tired crap over and over).

I have a feeling my right hand position is all wrong, but I can't find a good illustration of where it should be. Occasionally (if I don't consciously avoid it), I'll find that I'm bracing my hand with my pinky on the body of the guitar, rather than letting my hand float over the strings. I assume this is a bad thing?

I'm trying to work through "Windy and Warm" and "You are My Sunshine" (both tabbed out nicely at http://www.acousticfingerstyle.com/)

Any tips that anyone might have - good beginner songs, exercises, tips, etc. - post them here.

 

[32-20-Blues]

I have a feeling my right hand position is all wrong, but I can't find a good illustration of where it should be. Occasionally (if I don't consciously avoid it), I'll find that I'm bracing my hand with my pinky on the body of the guitar, rather than letting my hand float over the strings. I assume this is a bad thing?

.

Hey. I'm by no means an expert - although I do love fingerstyle playing. I constantly brace my pinky on the guitar's body. Although I have heard it crticised as a method, it is worth pointing out that some famous players still do it, and that it is the traditional hand position used in playing the lute and the cittern.

With regard to basslines - mine are never consistent. I emphasise a bassline sometimes, but often just use fragments of chords to fill in the low end.

Are you playing steel string? I play a classical, but have problems with my nails, so I generally just use the pads of my fingers.

 

[andyhix]

Hey. I'm by no means an expert - although I do love fingerstyle playing. I constantly brace my pinky on the guitar's body. Although I have heard it crticised as a method, it is worth pointing out that some famous players still do it, and that it is the traditional hand position used in playing the lute and the cittern.

I think I do it out of shear laziness and fear of losing my place relative to the strings. I seem to pick OK when I "float" I just need to force myself to do it.

Are you playing steel string? I play a classical, but have problems with my nails, so I generally just use the pads of my fingers.

I'm playing steel string right now. I'm anticipating getting a classical sometime in the next few months, though - a friend of mine died in December, and he was very good at fingerpicking. His family has told me that they'd like me to have one of his classical guitars. Kind of a shitty way to get a new guitar, but I am, in a way, excited. My renewed interest in fingerstyle is, in part, inspired by some 4-track tapes of my buddy that I got from his family and I've been listening to lately.

 

[TelePaul]

I'm playing steel string right now. I'm anticipating getting a classical sometime in the next few months, though - a friend of mine died in December, and he was very good at fingerpicking. His family has told me that they'd like me to have one of his classical guitars. Kind of a shitty way to get a new guitar, but I am, in a way, excited. My renewed interest in fingerstyle is, in part, inspired by some 4-track tapes of my buddy that I got from his family and I've been listening to lately.

For what it's worth Andy I don't think it's a shitty way to get a guitar. I mean obviously it would be better if your buddy was still around, but that's a nice gesture his family made. I think it'd be pretty cool to have one of his classicals, even as a means of remembering.

As for finger-picking; I suck. I'm on the official Nick Drake fan mailing list but I just don't have the patience to sit down and work at complex arrangements on one guitar. I can do an okay job of Jeff Buckleys 'Hallelujah' and an old Jackson C. Frank tune 'Blues Run The Game' but most of the time fingerstyle just intimidates me.

 

[andyhix]

For what it's worth Andy I don't think it's a shitty way to get a guitar. I mean obviously it would be better if your buddy was still around, but that's a nice gesture his family made. I think it'd be pretty cool to have one of his classicals, even as a means of remembering.

Yeah, of course, I'm honored to have anything of his, although it's pretty bittersweet. Getting ahold of his tape collection was pretty important to me. Honestly it was one of the first things I thought of when I got the news of his passing. I just hated to think of his original recordings rotting away in a box in a garage somewhere. I'm hoping to put together a compilation of his recordings sometime this year. As an added bonus, I found a nicely rolled J in a Clapton cassette case.

Anyway, enough bummer stuff - lets get back to fingerpickin'!

Edit - Nick Drake is awesome by the way. Which brings up another question on topic - what are some good musicians to check out in this style? I've been listening to a fair bit of Leo Kottke lately, although it makes my hands hurt just to listen.

 

[famous beagle]

I'm sorry for making a shameless plug here, but I wrote a book called the Hal Leonard Acoustic Guitar Method that you might want to check out. It's got a nice section on fingerpicking that includes travis picking, arpeggiation, and some other techniques.

http://www.halleonard.com/item_deta...&keywords=hal+leonard+acoustic+guitar+method+

I also wrote a book called the Hal Leonard Fingerstyle Guitar Method that's not been published yet. When that comes out, I think it would be right up your alley. It covers a lot of ground and deals specifically with finger and thumb independence on the right hand.

The reason I'm telling you this is because I haven't found that many good books on the style (in my opinion) that take it apart step by step. Anyway, if you're interested, you can send me a pm, and I'll be sure to let you know when the fingerstyle book comes out.

And, no, I don't make any royalties on these books, in case you were wondering. So I stand to make no monetary gain for suggesting these! (There are some books for which I do, but for these two I don't.)

Anyway, just thought I'd mention it.

Also, regarding the use of the pinky to brace yourself: I'm a firm believer that there's no such thing as "one correct technique." I mean, classical guitarists will tell you that Stevie Ray had horrendous guitar technique, but that's not true. He was an AMAZING technician; it's just that his technique suited the style he played. (Blues players I'm sure would have something to say about a classical player if they tried to play the blues.) The only drawbacks I could see with bracing your pinky are:

A) It doesn't allow you to move your right hand horizontally along the strings to get a different tone (brighter near the bridge, mellower near the neck)

B) Obviously, you can't use your pinky to pick (which isn't very common in typical steel-string type of playing, but it is a bit more common in jazz or country type of stuff.

C) It wouldn't seem to me to promote a relaxed feel in the right hand. I'm not positive about this, but the idea of fixing your hand in one spot like that seems to me kind of rigid. Again, though, this is just speculation on my part. 30-20 Blues would probably be able to tell you better if he experiences any tension problems in his right hand because of that technique.

Anyway, good luck with it. It's a fun style.

 

[32-20-Blues]

Edit - Nick Drake is awesome by the way. Which brings up another question on topic - what are some good musicians to check out in this style? I've been listening to a fair bit of Leo Kottke lately, although it makes my hands hurt just to listen.

Okay, the one song you absolutely have to listen to (by which I mean go and download it now) is Vincent Black Lightning by Richard Thompson. It's great.

Then there's Martin Simpson - he's good too, but look for his folk stuff as opposed to his blues. Nick Drake, obviously, John Martyn, and possibly the undisputed master of the genre: Davey Graham. (Check out Angie by him; he sometimes spells it Anji). Finally, listen to some Bert Jansch, and maybe some John Renbourn, both of whom were in Pentangle.

 

[amarach]

I have a feeling my right hand position is all wrong, but I can't find a good illustration of where it should be. Occasionally (if I don't consciously avoid it), I'll find that I'm bracing my hand with my pinky on the body of the guitar, rather than letting my hand float over the strings. I assume this is a bad thing?

Andy first of all do you think this hand position is all wrong purely because you think your hand "should" float over the strings or is it because it's limiting the technique.
Secondly, classical fingerpicking is generally written for fingerpicking without using the pinky to pluck anything....so as long as you don't feel comprimised by the position you shouldn't necessarily worry about it...
best of luck

 

[famous beagle]

Yeah, of course, I'm honored to have anything of his, although it's pretty bittersweet. Getting ahold of his tape collection was pretty important to me. Honestly it was one of the first things I thought of when I got the news of his passing. I just hated to think of his original recordings rotting away in a box in a garage somewhere. I'm hoping to put together a compilation of his recordings sometime this year. As an added bonus, I found a nicely rolled J in a Clapton cassette case.

Anyway, enough bummer stuff - lets get back to fingerpickin'!

Edit - Nick Drake is awesome by the way. Which brings up another question on topic - what are some good musicians to check out in this style? I've been listening to a fair bit of Leo Kottke lately, although it makes my hands hurt just to listen.

Yeah Richard Thompson is great, as 32-20 pointed out.

Also, Michael Hedges is great too. He did a lot of insane stuff, but he also did some more playable stuff with standard fingerstyle technique. "Eleven Small Roaches" is great.

Paul Simon had some great fingersyle tunes on the early S&G stuff.

Eric Johnson also had a great tune on Ah Via Musicom called "Song for George." That's a great song that's accessible to a more beginner player.

 

[andyhix]

Andy first of all do you think this hand position is all wrong purely because you think your hand "should" float over the strings or is it because it's limiting the technique.
Secondly, classical fingerpicking is generally written for fingerpicking without using the pinky to pluck anything....so as long as you don't feel comprimised by the position you shouldn't necessarily worry about it...
best of luck

I guess, since this is the first time I've ever really critically assessed my hand position, I'd rather start somewhere close to what is "proper," learn that (or relearn, as the case may be), then let my own technique create a modification of that as I develop. I just don't want to develop bad habits that might hinder me down the road.

Additionally, I do feel that the "pinky anchor" does cause a slight tension throughout the beefy part of hand (following the pinky back towards the wrist) that probably would be good to avoid. (Famous Beagle's Point C)

Likewise, I don't have a good feel for how far to stick my thumb out, what angle my hand should be relative to the strings, etc. Again, I realize this all might change as I progress, but I want to start at a universally acceptable starting point.

 

[philboyd studge]

Fingerstyle allows for a dynamic that's hard to get with a pick, in that you can go off in two directions........think left and right hands on a keyboard.

I learned to use my pinky for support, as was the common style 45 years ago when I picked it up, but since not everything is in a three finger style, I'll out of it often for other types of strumming or runs.

 

[Outlaws]

I remember my instructor when I was about 12 giving me a brief rundown on figer style. He said to rest the center of your forearm on the edge of the top (basically where it naturally is anyways, but centered) and leave your hand floating in the air....with a completely relaxed wrist. Think a total queer limp wrist.

Oh course I took that all and bastardized it into my own style. I really want to take lessons again so I can do it right, but its the limp wrist part that my hand doesn't agree with. I just can't do it. Plus I play more agressive than you would on a classical.

Tears in Heaven is a fantastic thing to consider learning. Plus you can watch video on YouTube to see EC's technique. I don't think anyone but the true greats of classical guitar would argue with anything he does.

 

[32-20-Blues]

Again, I realize this all might change as I progress, but I want to start at a universally acceptable starting point.

I once asked a teacher this question, and he told me to leave my hand wherever it was comfortable. I think what's more important to grasp is using one finger per string as much as possible; in other words, the first (index) finger for the D string, 2nd for the G, 3rd for the B, switching the 3rd to the E when necessary.

 

[Outlaws]

Here is a good vieo of proper technique. And it has a good song too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQcuQsD587M

 

[asulger]

pinkie on the top

Just for laughs, place your pinkie firmly on a table top and drum rapidly with your remaining fingers; drum sort of into the palm, as if you were fingerpicking.
Now do the same without planting your pinkie. Instead, curl it with the other fingers.
Anyone notice a difference?
Art

 

[32-20-Blues]

Just for laughs, place your pinkie firmly on a table top and drum rapidly with your remaining fingers; drum sort of into the palm, as if you were fingerpicking.
Now do the same without planting your pinkie. Instead, curl it with the other fingers.
Anyone notice a difference?
Art

Yeah, I find it easier to do it with the pinky on the table. Am I a mentalist?

 

[legionserial]

Yeah, I find it easier to do it with the pinky on the table. Am I a mentalist?

Funny, I drum my fingers on my desk at work a lot, andmy pinky never sits on the table. However I do anchor with my pimky when I'm playing fingerstyle a lot. I love playing fingerstyle. One of the things I found is that if I concentrate too hard on what I am doing, it doesn't work. Seems to be a case of learning the string placement like the back of your hand, and then just feeling it.

 

[andyhix]

I'm not sure I got what I was supposed to out of the table top test, but it seemed that pinky down was more controlled, but pinky up was faster?

One of the things I found is that if I concentrate too hard on what I am doing, it doesn't work. Seems to be a case of learning the string placement like the back of your hand, and then just feeling it.

Yep, just based on my couple days of trying this, I realize you can't think too much. Gotta let your fingers and thumb think for themselves a bit.

 

[travelin travis]

I'm not sure I got what I was supposed to out of the table top test, but it seemed that pinky down was more controlled, but pinky up was faster?
Yep, just based on my couple days of trying this, I realize you can't think too much. Gotta let your fingers and thumb think for themselves a bit.

I started playing around with some beginner Travis picking and delta blues stuff a few nights ago. That stuff is pretty challenging but adds a lot of style to otherwise strummed chord progressions. I've been finger picking for a long time but I guess I never realized how sloppy I am at it. I assume you know about p, i, m, a picking finger postitions? I learned some basics from old guitar mags and a beginner classical guitar book. I'd like to work thru the rest of that book but I dread sight reading and never found myself using it for anything. Maybe I'm missing the boat on something there.

 

[andyhix]

I've been finger picking for a long time but I guess I never realized how sloppy I am at it.

Exactly!

I assume you know about p, i, m, a picking finger postitions?

I know pima = T123, but I'm not sure what you mean by "finger positions."

One of the most important tidbits I've read so far was that the finger movement should come almost entirely from the big knuckle, and that the other knuckles just move sympthetically. I saw it likened to how a kicker should kick from his hip, not his knee. I never paid any attention to that stuff before.