Does volume really make a difference?

S

SweetDan

New member
I've read many of the suggestions here for getting awesome electric guitar tone, and the overall theme I see is:
1. Record a real amp with a real microphone
2. Make sure the amp is sizzling loud

I tried an experiment tonight while the fam was out - I turned my amp up really loud! And then I recorded it! To make it a truly "scientific" experiment, I also recorded it while it wasn't loud; I left all the other variables constant, though -- same mic placement, same amp settings (other than master vol) same guitar vol/tone settings, same pick, etc.

I've uploaded a file that has both recordings. I can't hear (much) difference between the section that was recorded while the amp was loud and the section recorded while the amp wasn't so loud. (Notes below about the amp/amp-settings, the guitar, the mic.) Can you hear a difference? Which part was the loud one? Which was the soft one?

If you can't hear a difference (other than the fact it was 2 separate performances, so my timing may have been slightly off, or a phrase cut short, whatever), can you explain why? Is my amp too cheap to make a difference? (It's a Vox VT30, 30 watt, 10" speaker combo amp, which came out near the first generation or so of modeling amps, so maybe that explains it?)

Anyway, just trying to see what I can tweak to get better sounds, given the limited resources I have to work with.

---

Guitar: Tele-style guitar, bridge P/U, vol=100%, tone=100%

Amp: Vox VT30, "UK 80's" mode, gain=50%, vol=50, treble=30, mid=45, bass=40, no f/x; for high volume, master vol. ~ 65%, low vol ~ 25%

Mic: SM57, 1" from grille, on edge of dust cone

---

Here are the files (one an MP3 for quick download, the other a WAV for the audiophiles; both have the same recording, however); I'll check back over the next few days for your comments, and to finally reveal which section of the recording was recorded "loud", and which was "soft".

- MP3
http://eastofcleveland.com/m/ElectricGuitarTone_vol.wav - WAV
 
Since yours is a modeling amp, the louder is better thing won't really apply.

There are two reasons for a TUBE amp to be played louder:
1. The distortion and compression from pushing the power tubes is what creates the sound of good distorted tone.
2. Pushing the speakers will make them distort, which adds another set of harmonics which tend to sound good.

Your amphone has a solid state power section and a relatively clean speaker (to accurately reproduce the models). Pushing your amp won't make much difference.
 
It won't make a huge difference with your amp, although it would be nice to get the speaker moving.

It will probably make a fair bit of difference to the way you play though. I don't know much about modelling amps, but does high volume increase the amount of feedback you get? I do love it when a fading note gradually turns to feedback.

The other thing about recording a bit louder: If you're anything like me, you're just sitting in front of your lap-top playing with your amp a couple of metres away. If you're too quiet, the pick attack will be audible on the recording.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Try this with an AC30.
Click to expand...

I wish my resources weren't as limited and I could do that. :)

bouldersoundguy said:
Definite difference even though it's not the kind of amp where it really matters.
Click to expand...

I don't really hear the difference; could you explain what you're hearing? (EDIT: I do hear pick noise about :15-17s, and none in the corresponding location of the "other" part, :42-44s. What else is different to your ear?)

At any rate, the first part was recorded at a low volume, the second at a high volume. (I obviously tweaked the trim knob on my interface so the levels were roughly the same, and further tweaked the levels in the DAW.)
 
Moving more air does sound slightly different and recording louder will keep unwanted background noise from getting in the recording. But again, the main reason for cranking an amp is to start to saturate the power tubes and stress out the speakers a bit. It wont work with a modelling amp because the power section and speakers are designed to faithfully reproduce the sound of the model, not to be part of the overall sound.
 
Even a modeling amp gives a better sound when cranked up because the mic picks up the speaker moving air.
 
jimistone said:
Even a modeling amp gives a better sound when cranked up because the mic picks up the speaker moving air.
Click to expand...
As was explained, but it certainly doesn't make as much of a difference as cranking a tube amp. Tube amps actually sound and respond differently when cranked, (most) modelling amps do not.
 
I think some modelers include driving the power tubes, but I guess this is an older amp.

The first thing I noticed was the shape of the waveform. The first part seemed to have higher peaks while the second looked more compressed. The second thing I noticed was that the sound matched the compressed look, and the highs were suppressed in the second part. By the time I noticed the pick noise I already knew which was which.
 
Wouldn't a modelling amp have an emulated output that would probably sound good?
 
It does make a difference. An tube amp sound different cranked than it does at lower volume. If you want that sound, crank it. If you don't, don't crank it.
 
A lot has been said about tube vs solid state.All true. As far as loud goes, how loud is loud? In my experience loud enough to get the amp and guitar "involved" with each other, ya know what I mean? And I try not to mic too close to the amp. Rarely do I put a mic on the grill. I like to back it off to let the sound develop a bit.
 
If there were only one kind of amp and only one guitar tone that was universally known to be the best tone for all situations, there would only be one answer to this question.

Since there isn't, you are going to get answers that are all over the map.

If you get the sound you want at low volume, record at low volume.
 
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