DMB transitions

azraelswings

New member
I was never a huge fan of the Dave Matthews Band until a friend loaned me the Gorge DVD. I still don't care for their studio albums too much but I do find their live show engaging. Also, I think Dave's rhythm playing is just short of virtuosic.

One very intriging aspect of their live show, from my perspective, is their jammy transitions between songs. I'm sure that most jam bands under the sun have done this, but I've never seen too jammers live.

Does anyone have any helpful hints for how to craft these sorts of interludes? Don't feel the need to shy away from theory heavy answers.
 
azraelswings said:
Does anyone have any helpful hints for how to craft these sorts of interludes? Don't feel the need to shy away from theory heavy answers.

For a theory heavy answer, you are asking about modulation. Generally the goal is to find a pivot chord between the two keys, set up a progression that gets there and back, sometimes with a third key as an interim. But in rock music, you can just change if you want a dramatic effect. Hey, even in classical music--check out the final movement of Beethoven's Ninth, after the well-known Ode to Joy, there is perhaps the best modulation ever.

Anyway, that's if you have two songs in (very) different keys. If they are in close keys, like G and D, you don't have to worry as much.

If you have two songs in mind, post the chord progressions of each, and someone will help with a progression that modulates between them :)

As for the transition itself, you just gotta practice it with the band. Nominate some member to start a jam off the end of a song, and go with that. Take turns leading between different songs, and see what works.

The key is listening to the band, rather than just being on autopilot during the song.
 
One of my faves is the Grateful Dead's transition from China Cat Sunflower to Know You Rider.
 
mshilarious said:
For a theory heavy answer, you are asking about modulation. Generally the goal is to find a pivot chord between the two keys, set up a progression that gets there and back, sometimes with a third key as an interim. But in rock music, you can just change if you want a dramatic effect. Hey, even in classical music--check out the final movement of Beethoven's Ninth, after the well-known Ode to Joy, there is perhaps the best modulation ever.

Anyway, that's if you have two songs in (very) different keys. If they are in close keys, like G and D, you don't have to worry as much.

If you have two songs in mind, post the chord progressions of each, and someone will help with a progression that modulates between them :)

As for the transition itself, you just gotta practice it with the band. Nominate some member to start a jam off the end of a song, and go with that. Take turns leading between different songs, and see what works.

The key is listening to the band, rather than just being on autopilot during the song.

I see. Just for my information, what is the definition of modulation? A key change?

I don't have 2 particular songs in mind yet, but for the sake of discussion I looked through my tabs folder and randomly picked Green Day's "Good Riddance (Time of Your Life)" and the Killer's "Mr. Brightside." The fact that I'd probably never link these two songs together aside, lets say I wanted to:

Good Riddance: Key of G
Mr. Brightside: Key of C#

Going from Good Riddance to Mr. B, the last chord progression in G.R. is Em D G Cadd9 D G Cadd9 D G. Mr. B starts with a C#. What the heck do I do?

Likewise, the opposite way:

Mr. B ends with C# F# A#m and G#. G.R. begins with a G. What the heck do I do?

I understand that this is a tough example, but I'm just looking to confront the hardest of situations, since similar keys pose less of a challenge.
 
azraelswings said:
I see. Just for my information, what is the definition of modulation? A key change?

Yep.

Good Riddance: Key of G
Mr. Brightside: Key of C#

Going from Good Riddance to Mr. B, the last chord progression in G.R. is Em D G Cadd9 D G Cadd9 D G. Mr. B starts with a C#. What the heck do I do?

OK that is a challenge. C# major eh? Tritone modulation, fun. I don't think I'm that smooth. What about if you started a little F#-G swing, like in Jailhouse Rock? Then instead of going to the IV (B-C), go to the #IV (B#-C#), with a G Lydian feel on the solo? OK that still isn't that close, but you're introduced a C# major chord, and if you're slick, you can pull a D#7 (#V) - G#7 - C# cadence off that (after the stock D7-C(#? have to try that)7-G7 cadence), once you are done jamming on your Lydian Elvis.


Likewise, the opposite way:

Mr. B ends with C# F# A#m and G#. G.R. begins with a G. What the heck do I do?

That seems a lot easier, just drop into C#m (relative of E), then E, and then Em (relative of G).
 
mshilarious said:
Yep.



OK that is a challenge. C# major eh? Tritone modulation, fun. I don't think I'm that smooth. What about if you started a little F#-G swing, like in Jailhouse Rock? Then instead of going to the IV (B-C), go to the #IV (B#-C#), with a G Lydian feel on the solo? OK that still isn't that close, but you're introduced a C# major chord, and if you're slick, you can pull a D#7 (#V) - G#7 - C# cadence off that (after the stock D7-C(#? have to try that)7-G7 cadence), once you are done jamming on your Lydian Elvis.




That seems a lot easier, just drop into C#m (relative of E), then E, and then Em (relative of G).

I don't suppose you could recommend a good text or web resource about key changes?
 
Phish was one of the biggest jambands of the 90s. Their fans noticed that their jams fell into two categories:

From the Phish.Net FAQ:
Type I and Type II: John Flynn raised (date?) the distinction between two "types" of jamming. Type I jamming involves variations on a song's written notes and tempo; Type II jamming involves additional variations on structures and keys. Or, as he put it:

I think Phish jamming falls into two types of jamming:
1) Jamming that is based around a fixed chord progression
2) Jamming that improvises chord progressions, rhythms,
and the whole structure of the music.

Lots of bands do the type 1 jamming - the basic chord progression stays the same while various instruments trade solos over it. This drags on for a while and then they play a practiced transition (segue) to another song, or just stop.

Very few bands get into type II. The Grateful Dead, Phish, and Widespread Panic are all great examples.

I haven't listened to DMB since the late 90s, but back then they never did any "type II" jamming. If you listen to the jams on Red Rocks, like Warehouse and Two Step, it's all "type I." The progression stays the same, even though the intensity builds and someone may improv a melody or solo on top.
 
One more thing about segues.. Something I have never heard DMB do, which was/is quite common for the Grateful Dead, Phish, and Widespread panic, is to play a second song (and 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.) in the middle of the first song.

There is another band called Disco Biscuits that does all sorts of weird things like this, and their fans have invented a bunch of terms to describe it: inverted songs, dyslexic songs, fakeouts, etc. Read about it here.

What is an inverted version of a song?
Consider a basic Disco Biscuits song (Song A) that has three parts: A beginning composed section, followed by a jam, followed by a composed ending section. An inverted version of a song will usually happen when they jam out of a different song (Song B), and segue the jam into the ending section of Song A. At the exact point of the ending of Song A, they immediately play the beginning of Song A, then the jam section, which usually segues into a different song.

What is a dyslexic version of a song?
Back to the example above, except the beginning of Song A does not immediately follow the ending. A sample setlist with a dyslexic version of Song A might look as follows: Song B -> Song A (ending only), Song C, Song A (beginning only) -> Song D.
 
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