Annual Humidity post - SUPER IMPORTANT - READ THIS!!!!!!! (long, but worth it)
- Thread starter Light
- Start date
Tadpui
Well-known member
What I'm saying is really simple as well. Foam humidifying element = use distilled water. I'm not arguing that they're superior, or even equal, to that Kyser thing. I'm not arguing against anything that you've said other than when you said that using distilled water is silly. But for some reason, that one very simple little thing seems impossible for you to swallow. I simply won't allow you to discount it as bullshit.
I didn't say that tap water is a source of bacteria. I said that it contains trace amounts of dissolved hard minerals. As the water evaporates, it leaves behind these minerals. Over time, these minerals accumulate and clog the small pores of foam-type humidifier elements (wow, it IS like a mantra). And mold spores that float around in the air can find a nice little breeding ground in a moist, mineral-rich humidifier filled with tap water. No mention of bacteria from me.
And what cigars have to do with guitars is that they are both sensitive to humidity. As someone who owns and maintains a humidor and who has sought advice and done research in this area, I recognize the similarities. Yes, the target RH is different between a humidor and a guitar case, but in both cases you're trying to use water vapor to keep your valuable posessions from drying out. In both cases, you're using a humidifying element that absorbs water and then releases it slowly over time. In both cases, you have an enclosed space in which you're trying to control the humidity. That's what cigars have to do with guitars.
I didn't say that tap water is a source of bacteria. I said that it contains trace amounts of dissolved hard minerals. As the water evaporates, it leaves behind these minerals. Over time, these minerals accumulate and clog the small pores of foam-type humidifier elements (wow, it IS like a mantra). And mold spores that float around in the air can find a nice little breeding ground in a moist, mineral-rich humidifier filled with tap water. No mention of bacteria from me.
And what cigars have to do with guitars is that they are both sensitive to humidity. As someone who owns and maintains a humidor and who has sought advice and done research in this area, I recognize the similarities. Yes, the target RH is different between a humidor and a guitar case, but in both cases you're trying to use water vapor to keep your valuable posessions from drying out. In both cases, you're using a humidifying element that absorbs water and then releases it slowly over time. In both cases, you have an enclosed space in which you're trying to control the humidity. That's what cigars have to do with guitars.
Victory Pete
Banned
I didnt mention that with the Humi-case 2 bottles of "Activation solution" was supplied.
http://www.humicase.com/product.aspx?q=10
I followed the directions but havent purchased any more of it. I dont know what to think of it. It says it is propylene glycol.
VP
http://www.humicase.com/product.aspx?q=10
I followed the directions but havent purchased any more of it. I dont know what to think of it. It says it is propylene glycol.
VP
getuhgrip
Bring Back Transfat!
Interesting point. I wouldn't have thought of that.
Tadpui
Well-known member
The Propylene Glycol will help your humidity stay down if it's too high. It basically regulates the humidity and keeps it within a certain range, depending on the concentration of P/G to distilled water in the solution. It's probably not needed, and you could probalby get by with just using distilled water in the humidifying elements. If you start to see a humidity that's higher than desired, then definitely start using the P/G solution again.
Victory Pete
Banned
muttley600
Banned
Another side effect that hopefully won't be applicable to either your guitars or your cigars is that it is an anti freeze.
Brrrrrr
Light
New member
Well, I don't have much choice. Every time I try to kick myself out of the house, I keep coming back.
Seriously folks, Lifeguard, soap dish humidifier, and keep it in the case. As long as you keep the sponges damp, your guitar will be fine.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
TelePaul
J to the R O C
On top of a large pile of money with many beautiful women.
Light
New member
Give it up Light. You can lead a horse to water... but if some dufass doesn't understand or care what happens to their wooden instrument, they'll just have to learn the hard way. My '83 HD-28 has no checks or fret edge extensions, because I read and followed the "care and feeding" brochure that came with it. I applaud your efforts to educate the masses, but after reading some of the posts in this thread, I have a better understanding of the old saying: You can buy them books and send 'em to school, but you can't make them learn!.
Well to put my two cents in, I only own a couple of solid wood guitars (dreadnaught and a classical) well a second classical, but I won't count it...it's a cheapy and had a small crack in the top when I bought it. When I first got them I did research, and I learned that over humidified can be almost as bad as under humidified, so to help protect my investment I bought a decent hygrometer, made by Taylor ( I think it was about $75 CAN )and I keep it in the room with my guitars, so I can monitor the humidity levels. I have moved it around the room to see if there are great variances ( for example near the heat duct ). I keep the door to this room closed at all times to try to maintain a constant humidity and temperature. I have not yet had to battle low humidify, but I have had to use a dehumidifer a few times this summer. But with the dehumidifier I have found it easy to keep the humidity around 50-55. I contacted Alverez ( my dread is a DYM95...my first pricey guitar ) and they recommended to keep ideally at 50, and now lower than 40 and no higher than 60.
I was surprised that last winter that I had no problems. Usually it is very dry here in the winter. The humidity got down a couple times to right around 40, and I would simply put trays filled with rocks under plants in the room and fill the trays with water, and would fill them every couple of days. The plants were happy and my guitars were happy.
I am going to invest in some soap dishes/sponges though so I will be ready if humidity goes down really low and the rock-filled trays do not work.
Anyway, my plan of attack has been to monitor and react. So far I may have been lucky I guess, but it has worked for me.
A great thread by the way. Humidity is surely something every stringed instrument owner should be aware of. I don't worry so much about my laminated topped guitars and they just sit on stands or in the old-time cheap vinyl-covered coardboard cases, but I do protect my more valuable ones with decent cases. Unfortunately, and it is a pity, I find myself reaching for the easier ones more often than digging out the cased ones...but I enjoy them all so I guess it is ok
I was surprised that last winter that I had no problems. Usually it is very dry here in the winter. The humidity got down a couple times to right around 40, and I would simply put trays filled with rocks under plants in the room and fill the trays with water, and would fill them every couple of days. The plants were happy and my guitars were happy.
I am going to invest in some soap dishes/sponges though so I will be ready if humidity goes down really low and the rock-filled trays do not work.
Anyway, my plan of attack has been to monitor and react. So far I may have been lucky I guess, but it has worked for me.
A great thread by the way. Humidity is surely something every stringed instrument owner should be aware of. I don't worry so much about my laminated topped guitars and they just sit on stands or in the old-time cheap vinyl-covered coardboard cases, but I do protect my more valuable ones with decent cases. Unfortunately, and it is a pity, I find myself reaching for the easier ones more often than digging out the cased ones...but I enjoy them all so I guess it is ok
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
By the way, thanks for bumping this - I just cross posted this with a link back to the original at another forum I run. I figure it's an important enough PSA to pass around (with proper attribution 
).
).
muttley600
Banned
Well to put my two cents in, I only own a couple of solid wood guitars (dreadnaught and a classical) well a second classical, but I won't count it...it's a cheapy and had a small crack in the top when I bought it. When I first got them I did research, and I learned that over humidified can be almost as bad as under humidified, so to help protect my investment I bought a decent hygrometer, made by Taylor ( I think it was about $75 CAN )and I keep it in the room with my guitars, so I can monitor the humidity levels. I have moved it around the room to see if there are great variances ( for example near the heat duct ). I keep the door to this room closed at all times to try to maintain a constant humidity and temperature. I have not yet had to battle low humidify, but I have had to use a dehumidifer a few times this summer. But with the dehumidifier I have found it easy to keep the humidity around 50-55. I contacted Alverez ( my dread is a DYM95...my first pricey guitar ) and they recommended to keep ideally at 50, and now lower than 40 and no higher than 60.
I was surprised that last winter that I had no problems. Usually it is very dry here in the winter. The humidity got down a couple times to right around 40, and I would simply put trays filled with rocks under plants in the room and fill the trays with water, and would fill them every couple of days. The plants were happy and my guitars were happy.
I am going to invest in some soap dishes/sponges though so I will be ready if humidity goes down really low and the rock-filled trays do not work.
Anyway, my plan of attack has been to monitor and react. So far I may have been lucky I guess, but it has worked for me.
A great thread by the way. Humidity is surely something every stringed instrument owner should be aware of. I don't worry so much about my laminated topped guitars and they just sit on stands or in the old-time cheap vinyl-covered coardboard cases, but I do protect my more valuable ones with decent cases. Unfortunately, and it is a pity, I find myself reaching for the easier ones more often than digging out the cased ones...but I enjoy them all so I guess it is ok
How do you manage to over humidify your guitars?
muttley600
Banned
By the way, thanks for bumping this - I just cross posted this with a link back to the original at another forum I run. I figure it's an important enough PSA to pass around (with proper attribution
Drew, this thread is full of bull at times. You should get one of the guys in the know at your place to write a decent sticky on the subject. This one is now of little use apart from a few posts.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Well, I figured Light's opening post was pretty solid still, which is all I copied and pasted. I included a link to the thread by way of attribution, but I'm sort of hoping no one bothers to read more than that.
Well I am not really sure what you mean. I never try to over humidify. I had on occasion had to use a dehumidifier over the last few months, but we had a ton of rain and for a few weeks on end humidity outside was in the upper 90's. Extremely unusual for these parts.
If you are referring to the fact that guitars can be over humidified, I was told by Alvarez that humidity should not be allowed over 60%. I have tried searching for the email but I think it is long gone ( it was from over a year ago ) They did mention what their factory was kept at for production, but I don't remember what it was.
Here is a link that explains what can happen with over humidification... http://www.acousticfingerstyle.com/humdity.htm
So I say monitoring humidity is quite important. Like I said in my previous post, I am certainly no expert, but to date it has worked for me.
muttley600
Banned
This..
It simply isn't true.
Under normal circumstances you will find it next to impossible to over humidify your guitars. If you read through this thread and extract the info from those that do know what they are talking about there is a lot of good info there. To summarise most of it.
It is wise to monitor the humidity of the environment in which your instruments are stored. Not just the current humidity but the range and speed at which it changes.
What instruments dislike the most is rapid changes in humidity not any specific relative humidity with the exception of severely dry conditions when it is a good idea to re-humidify as slowly as you can.
Avoid humidity levels above your local dew point for any length of time, not because it will cause cracking but because it can cause mold and mildew.
Low humidity is far more damaging than high humidity.
The moisture content of timber stabalises quite quickly at around 60% relative humidity and doesn't increase much above that.
If you are at all concerned keep your instruments in their cases with a soap dish humidifier.
What instruments dislike the most is rapid changes in humidity. I've repeated that one because it is by far the most important.
I agree that very low humidity is worse than high as it can do severe damage that will not correct itself, whereas high humidity problems will usually sort themselves out with time when exposed to normal levels again, but not always.
I really don't mean to argue, as you obviously know what you are talking about, but from what I have read in this thread, it seems that people are being told not too worry about over humidification. I could be interpreting it incorrectly because of my limited knowledge, but I would hate for other people in my situation to think that they can simply give their instruments lots of humidity and be completely safe.
I know that sudden swings of temp and humidity is bad, (especially temperature) but don't you agree that too high of humidity over a period of time, even if it is a slow change can cause serious problems.
I really don't mean to argue, as you obviously know what you are talking about, but from what I have read in this thread, it seems that people are being told not too worry about over humidification. I could be interpreting it incorrectly because of my limited knowledge, but I would hate for other people in my situation to think that they can simply give their instruments lots of humidity and be completely safe.
I know that sudden swings of temp and humidity is bad, (especially temperature) but don't you agree that too high of humidity over a period of time, even if it is a slow change can cause serious problems.
muttley600
Banned
Only for the reasons stated above. As I have said you really have to work hard to over humidify your guitar. The biggest dangers are mold and mildew starting if the guitar is left too long unprotected in places with humidity above dew point.. Once the timber has taken on water to it's limit it matters not how much more ambient humidity is around. Temperature is a different issue.
In short you said that over humidifying your guitar is as dangerous as under humidifying your guitar. For the sake of clarity I point out to all that read this that it not.