Annual Humidity post - SUPER IMPORTANT - READ THIS!!!!!!! (long, but worth it)

I looked around the local stores and only saw this one:

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Planet-Waves-Body-Guard-Humidifier?sku=420552

Do you (Light) think this will be sufficient? Also my guitar is ovation (yep, I bought a guitar from an aviation company) and will it matter since it is body is not totally wood?

thanks


I've never been fond of those things for a variety of reasons. First of all, they are made of a very hard plastic, which can (though it seldom does) damage the guitar. Second, they are kind of difficult to fill, which means you are less likely to do so.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
After making a more detailed search I was able to find a kyser..

the that had bothered me about the planet wave thing was it seemed hard plastic, it was talking about distilled water....

thanks Light for the topic!
 
Guitarists should avoid reading such "warning" topics :-)

We care about temperature, strings, hangs, pick-ups, cables, frets... and now humidity...

The best way for musician is to forget it all, play and have fan.

To perfectly fulfill all the storage requirements for wooden instrument is a mission impossible.
 
To perfectly fulfill all the storage requirements for wooden instrument is a mission impossible.


No, it's actually quite simple. You keep it in the case with a humidifier and check the humidifier every couple of days. That's it. Now, would you rather spend $25 and a couple minutes a week on maintenance, or spend $100-300 every year or two to get the cracks repaired. It's a no brainier, and while guys like me can always use the money, if you want you guitar to last you need to take care of it. My shop sees hundreds of guitars with humidity problems which could have been easily avoided.

Also, if your guitar is at all valuable, taking a few simple precautions will protect your investment. A guitar which is well maintained will play better, sound better, and will be worth more if you ever sell it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Two days ago I saw a bump under the bridge on the top wood of my ovation acoustic. I am not sure if it as there before and I keep the guitar in its hard case with a kyser humidifier..

and what I mean by bump is a like a swelling which is visible when you look from sideways. Is this can be because of lack of humidity?
 
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Two days ago I saw a bump under the bridge on the top wood of my ovation acoustic. I am not sure if it as there before and I keep the guitar in its hard case with a kyser humidifier..

and what I mean by bump is a like a swelling which is visible when you look from sideways. Is this can be because of lack of humidity?

I keep forgetting to reply to this. Some degree of behind the bridge bulge is normal. Excessive amounts are a problem. It can be caused by a lot of things, but around here humidity issues are one of the big ones, and lack of humidity can also cause things like the braces to pop loose, or the bridge plate to come loose. Not to mention, of course, cracks which can cause geometry changes.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
i had 3 neck plates (musicman) literally split on me...musicman said that the bolts needed to be undone a bit due to the wood swelling in the high humdidty of asia. They replaced all 3.. no quibble.:)
 
I fill it under a running tap (there is absolutely NO need to use filtered water, and anyone who says otherwise is just silly) until it is wet, but not dripping when squeezed, then I dry off the exterior with a paper towel (being very careful to get under the lip that holds it in the guitar), and put it in the soundhole.

A quick note:

Using filtered water, yeah that's not going to do any good over normal tap water. But using distilled water actually has merit to it. I'm a cigar enthusiast (not quite an aficionado) so I'm concerned with humidity for another of my hobbies as well. Some humidifiers (almost all cigar humidor elements) use a material inside that's basically florist's foam. It's a funny-feeling stiff foam that happens to release water at 70% humidity, which is right in the middle of the range where us cigar smokers like to have our stogies humidified. The problem with tap water is that the dissolved minerals that are in most people's tap water tend to clog the pores of this foam over time and make it less efficient at both absorbing and releasing water. So using distilled water avoids this problem, and also reduces the probability that you'll develop mold problems.

I'm not sure what type of material most guitar humidifers use as the element inside, but any of them that use this florist's foam type of material are best served being filled with distilled (not purified, not filtered) water.

I would like to reinforce the importance of wiping off your humidifier after filling it. Not only can water drips do terrible things to your wooden instrument, but they can also promote mold and/or mildew formation.

One other note about the accuracy of hygrometers:

There are lots of analog and digital hygrometers available for very cheap nowadays, and yes they are prone to being inaccurate. But they're generally not going to be wildly inaccurate. And like Light mentioned, you're basically interested in a general humidity for your instrument's sake. With a cigar, the difference between 68% and 72% relative humidity can be the difference between an enjoyable smoke and a nightmare of cracked wrappers and difficulty keeping it lit. So us cigar enthusiasts need a pretty accurate reading on our hygrometers.

The general consensus is that even the cheapest digital hygrometer is going to be much more accurate and reliable than most of the coil-type analog hygrometers that come with most humidors. Even if it doesn't read exactly accurately, it will still let you know when a difference in humidity occurs. Here's a way to calibrate your hygrometer so that you'll know if it's off, and how much to either recalibrate it or to at least keep in mind:

Take the lid from any 2-liter bottle of soda and fill it with table salt. Just use normal, granulated iodized salt like Morton's. Now put just enough water in the lid to saturate the salt, but not enough to make saltwater. Put the salt-filled soda lid in a ziploc bag with your hygrometer. Set it aside for a while. Give it at least a few minutes, more if possible. Now the hygrometer should read exactly 70%. If not, adjust your hygrometer as necessary, or at least make note of how much it differs from 70%.

Now that I own an acoustic guitar worth worrying about, I'm much more interested humidifiers. I still haven't found one that's wowed me with its reviews or endorsements. The Oasis ones look the most intriguing to me, in that they hold quite a bit of water, they're made of a soft material, and they hang between the strings so they're really easy to install and remove. Just tonight I grabbed an old prescription bottle, poked some holes in it with a nail, and put a damp sponge inside it and tossed it in my case. I'll have to see if that has any affect at all.

Anyways, hope this helps. Happy humidifying, and here's another thanks for this reminder post!
 
A quick note:

Using filtered water, yeah that's not going to do any good over normal tap water. But using distilled water actually has merit to it. I'm a cigar enthusiast (not quite an aficionado) so I'm concerned with humidity for another of my hobbies as well. Some humidifiers (almost all cigar humidor elements) use a material inside that's basically florist's foam. It's a funny-feeling stiff foam that happens to release water at 70% humidity, which is right in the middle of the range where us cigar smokers like to have our stogies humidified. The problem with tap water is that the dissolved minerals that are in most people's tap water tend to clog the pores of this foam over time and make it less efficient at both absorbing and releasing water. So using distilled water avoids this problem, and also reduces the probability that you'll develop mold problems.

I'm not sure what type of material most guitar humidifers use as the element inside, but any of them that use this florist's foam type of material are best served being filled with distilled (not purified, not filtered) water.

I would like to reinforce the importance of wiping off your humidifier after filling it. Not only can water drips do terrible things to your wooden instrument, but they can also promote mold and/or mildew formation.

One other note about the accuracy of hygrometers:

There are lots of analog and digital hygrometers available for very cheap nowadays, and yes they are prone to being inaccurate. But they're generally not going to be wildly inaccurate. And like Light mentioned, you're basically interested in a general humidity for your instrument's sake. With a cigar, the difference between 68% and 72% relative humidity can be the difference between an enjoyable smoke and a nightmare of cracked wrappers and difficulty keeping it lit. So us cigar enthusiasts need a pretty accurate reading on our hygrometers.

The general consensus is that even the cheapest digital hygrometer is going to be much more accurate and reliable than most of the coil-type analog hygrometers that come with most humidors. Even if it doesn't read exactly accurately, it will still let you know when a difference in humidity occurs. Here's a way to calibrate your hygrometer so that you'll know if it's off, and how much to either recalibrate it or to at least keep in mind:

Take the lid from any 2-liter bottle of soda and fill it with table salt. Just use normal, granulated iodized salt like Morton's. Now put just enough water in the lid to saturate the salt, but not enough to make saltwater. Put the salt-filled soda lid in a ziploc bag with your hygrometer. Set it aside for a while. Give it at least a few minutes, more if possible. Now the hygrometer should read exactly 70%. If not, adjust your hygrometer as necessary, or at least make note of how much it differs from 70%.

Now that I own an acoustic guitar worth worrying about, I'm much more interested humidifiers. I still haven't found one that's wowed me with its reviews or endorsements. The Oasis ones look the most intriguing to me, in that they hold quite a bit of water, they're made of a soft material, and they hang between the strings so they're really easy to install and remove. Just tonight I grabbed an old prescription bottle, poked some holes in it with a nail, and put a damp sponge inside it and tossed it in my case. I'll have to see if that has any affect at all.

Anyways, hope this helps. Happy humidifying, and here's another thanks for this reminder post!

That was very interesting, I have been using Dampits in my acoustics. They come with a perforated flexible tube that is filled with foam which hangs inside the guitar supported by a clear plastic soundhole cover. On this cover is a color coded hygrometer. It changes from pink when too damp to blue when too dry, you want it both pink and blue. It states to use distilled water for the same reason you point out. A gallon of distilled water lasts a few years so it is easy enough to bother. I have noticed a lot more cracked tops recently, It has been colder than normal here in the NE USA, also there seems to be less snow, which I figure makes for drier air. Global warming seems to be making some climatic changes that disrupts the entire global weather system. The summers here arent as hot as they once were.
http://www.dampits.com/
VP
 
That was very interesting, I have been using Dampits in my acoustics. They come with a perforated flexible tube that is filled with foam which hangs inside the guitar supported by a clear plastic soundhole cover. On this cover is a color coded hygrometer. It changes from pink when too damp to blue when too dry, you want it both pink and blue. It states to use distilled water for the same reason you point out. A gallon of distilled water lasts a few years so it is easy enough to bother. I have noticed a lot more cracked tops recently, It has been colder than normal here in the NE USA, also there seems to be less snow, which I figure makes for drier air. Global warming seems to be making some climatic changes that disrupts the entire global weather system. The summers here arent as hot as they once were.
http://www.dampits.com/
VP

Yes, a gallon of distilled water costs right around $1 and considering the small amounts of water we're talking about to keep a guitar case humidifed, it will last quite a while. So there's really not much of a downside to using distilled water over tap water. It certainly won't hurt anything.

The only problems I have are finding a place to keep the rather large gallon container and also it's difficult to do any precise pouring out of a gallon container. It's usually a good idea to pour some distilled water into some sort of smaller, sealed container just so it's easier to pour without getting it everywhere and wasting distilled water. I have a few pint-sized plastic bottles with pour spout lids that work perfectly.

So far, my homemade humidifier is keeping the case at 47%. But one other thing I learned as the caretaker of a cigar humidor is that the moisture given off by humidfier elements is very localized. If you measure the RH near your humidifying element, it's going to be much higher than if you measure it at the farthest point away from the humidifier inside your case. So keep that in mind when deciding on a placement of your humidifier and also when reading your hygrometer.

With that in mind, I think that the humidifiers that hang down inside the body of your instrument are going to be the best since they deliver moisture to the part of the instrument that needs the moisture the most. Then tossing in a homemade humidifier will help the overall humidity, or at least keep the headstock and neck more humid. The bad thing about that is that there isn't a whole lot of spare room inside of most guitar cases, at least the custom-shaped ones.
 
Yes, a gallon of distilled water costs right around $1 and considering the small amounts of water we're talking about to keep a guitar case humidifed, it will last quite a while. So there's really not much of a downside to using distilled water over tap water. It certainly won't hurt anything.

The only problems I have are finding a place to keep the rather large gallon container and also it's difficult to do any precise pouring out of a gallon container. It's usually a good idea to pour some distilled water into some sort of smaller, sealed container just so it's easier to pour without getting it everywhere and wasting distilled water. I have a few pint-sized plastic bottles with pour spout lids that work perfectly.

So far, my homemade humidifier is keeping the case at 47%. But one other thing I learned as the caretaker of a cigar humidor is that the moisture given off by humidfier elements is very localized. If you measure the RH near your humidifying element, it's going to be much higher than if you measure it at the farthest point away from the humidifier inside your case. So keep that in mind when deciding on a placement of your humidifier and also when reading your hygrometer.

With that in mind, I think that the humidifiers that hang down inside the body of your instrument are going to be the best since they deliver moisture to the part of the instrument that needs the moisture the most. Then tossing in a homemade humidifier will help the overall humidity, or at least keep the headstock and neck more humid. The bad thing about that is that there isn't a whole lot of spare room inside of most guitar cases, at least the custom-shaped ones.

I have a Cordoba Classical guitar that came with an awesome case. The case is a Humi-Case Protege. It has 2 built in foam filled humidifiers. One is near the headstock and the other is in the lid above the soundhole. They make cases for different styles of guitars, I have contemplated getting one for each of my 2 Martins.
VP
http://www.humicase.com/
 
There is absolutely no need to use distilled or filtered water. Tap water works just fine.

Damp-its are too small to be effective in any area that has an actual winter.

As I've said many times before, use a Kyser Lifeguard and a Soap Dish humidifier, and keep your guitar in its case when you are not playing it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
There is absolutely no need to use distilled or filtered water. Tap water works just fine.

Damp-its are too small to be effective in any area that has an actual winter.

As I've said many times before, use a Kyser Lifeguard and a Soap Dish humidifier, and keep your guitar in its case when you are not playing it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

As was already mentioned by another poster, the minerals can clog the foam cells. Distilled water is nothing but H2O. We have actual winters here in New England, The dampits work great, depending on how often I use my acoustics and how cold it gets, I dont have to add water to the Dampits for a month. Another great thing about the Dampits is you can play with the tube still inside the guitar. Also they are easy to refill by simply inserting it in the 1 gallon distilled water container, no waste.
VP
 
There is absolutely no need to use distilled or filtered water. Tap water works just fine.

Damp-its are too small to be effective in any area that has an actual winter.

As I've said many times before, use a Kyser Lifeguard and a Soap Dish humidifier, and keep your guitar in its case when you are not playing it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

If you use a humidifier that uses the florist foam type element inside it, then you do need to use distilled water. Tap water has dissolved minerals in it that will, over time, clog the pores of these foam-type elements and make them less efficient at absorbing and releasing humidity (that sounds vaguely familiar for some reason). That translates into having to refill them more often and getting lower RH inside your case.

Ask anybody that's owned a cigar humidor and used tap water for a year or two, or someone who's use Propylene Glycol to help regulate their humidity. Their little "hockey puck" style humidfying element doesn't work any more. Go to CigarAficionado.com and search the forums for lots of accounts of the diffuculties of using tap water for humidifying. Mold and clogged pores are actually real problems with the use of tap water in foam-type humidifier elements.
 
As was already mentioned by another poster, the minerals can clog the foam cells.


Bullshit.


But more to the point, what the fuck are you using foam for? Sponges work better, are cheaper, and work just fine with tap water. I've got Lifeguards that are 25 years old, have never been used with anything but tap water, and which work every bit as well today as ever before.

Those humidifiers that use foam are useless - I am constantly seeing people who use those and develop cracks.

Oh, and I've lived in New England - winter in New England is short, wet, and warm - at least compared to the upper midwest.

As I've said, many times - Kyser Lifeguard, soap dish humidifier, keep it in the case when you are not playing it. Period. It is the best possible situation for the guitar.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Bullshit.


But more to the point, what the fuck are you using foam for? Sponges work better, are cheaper, and work just fine with tap water. I've got Lifeguards that are 25 years old, have never been used with anything but tap water, and which work every bit as well today as ever before.

Those humidifiers that use foam are useless - I am constantly seeing people who use those and develop cracks.

Oh, and I've lived in New England - winter in New England is short, wet, and warm - at least compared to the upper midwest.

As I've said, many times - Kyser Lifeguard, soap dish humidifier, keep it in the case when you are not playing it. Period. It is the best possible situation for the guitar.

You can't argue this point against a cigar smoker that owns a humidor :D. Minerals dissolved in tap water can, over time, clog the pores of the foam-type humidifying elements (wow, its not just an echo, its like a delay effect with the regen turned up). This foam is used in cigar humidor humidifiers made by innumerable manufacturers worldwide. Whether these foam elements are commonly used in guitar humidifiers, I don't know (which I stated in my original reply above). But I suspect that the "humicase" type cases might use them. And I'm sure that there are some number of guitarists using these (however incorrectly) in their guitar cases. These foam-type humidifying elements can also be clogged over time when using propylene-glycol solution for anybody in the rare case of trying to keep the humidity in their case down instead of up.

So even though I'm speaking from the point-of-view of a cigar humidor owner and enthusiast, this may actually pertain to a small amount of guitarists as well.

The sponge-type humidifiers probably don't have pores small enough to be clogged by said minerals, unless you have extremely hard water and use the same sponge until your great-great grandchildren are the first to change out your humidifying element. So yes, your correct (but also way too excited) assertion that sponge-type humidifiers probably won't clog is more than likely correct.

Tap water does encourage the growth of mold and mildew more than distilled water does, but at the lower humidity levels in a guitar case it may not be a problem like it is in the near-70% humidity of an average cigar humidor.

But for chrissakes, Light, you're stuck in "hate Pete" mode still. He hasn't done anything in this thread except state an opinion/fact on something with which you disagree. Take a chill pill and discuss, dude. Debate is fine but you gotta stop jumping all over people about this little stuff. Prove him wrong if you need to, but c'mon, easy.

I've been around these forums a long time and you've always been on a short fuse, and it's always fascinated me to think of whether you're like that in real life, or if this is some sort of way for you to vent, or if you're just always in a bad mood when you have the time to post here. Whatever the back-story, try counting to 10 before posting next time. Your expertise is greatly appreciated but your attitude is a drag.

Peace.
 
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But for chrissakes, Light, you're stuck in "hate Pete" mode still. He hasn't done anything in this thread except state an opinion/fact on something with which you disagree. Take a chill pill and discuss, dude. Debate is fine but you gotta stop jumping all over people about this little stuff. Prove him wrong if you need to, but c'mon, easy.


No, I have no hate for Pete. He's an idiot, and consistently gives the kind of bad advice that makes the internet such a questionable place for good information, but he's not worth the effort of hating. Very few people are. Some are worth ignoring, some are worth arguing, some just need to be refuted, but hate just takes too much energy for me to bother. But when he is giving really bad advice, I will call him on it.

As I've already said, foam humidifiers are crap when it comes to guitars, and anything that requires I spend more money for water than I pay out of the tap is a waste of time and money. Also, anything that makes it more work or money to keep your guitar humidified is going to make you less likely to do so, which is bad.

It's like a mantra, folks - Kyser Lifeguard, soap dish humidifier, keep them damp, and keep it all in the case with the guitar when you aren't playing. What could be simpler? It's all you need, and it does a better job than anything else out there.

If the temperature around your area gets below freezing, you quite simply can not over humidify, short of actually dumping buckets of water in your guitar. So, err on the side of caution, and keep things well humidified.

Oh, and if tap water is such a source of bacteria, why is it that my 25 year old Lifeguards don't smell bad? Sponges don't pickup bacteria from tap water, they pick it up when you use them for cleaning, which you really shouldn't be doing with your humidifier sponges. Add to this the fact that, mine at least, spend about 6-7 months out of the year bone dry (I don't need them in the summer), so most things that might get in there would die anyway.

And by the way, what the hell do cigars have to do with guitars? Not much, as nears as I can tell. I may joke about my guitar humidor (I don't have cases for all my guitars, because cases cost me money that guitars don't, so I have a really nice case I keep them in), but if it ever got up to 70% RH, I'd start to have problems with mold and shit. Not what I want.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
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