Acoustic-Electric or Acoustic???

F

Forte

New member
In my experience, an unplugged acoustic-electric does not sound as good as a regular acoustic. That's why when I bought a new guitar I chose a nice black Washburn folk guitar. At the time, I occupied myself with playing alone - plus I could take it anywhere and it would sound good with out having to take an amp.

However, even though I love this guitar, in a performance situation, I found that an electric-acoustic sounds much better than a regular acoustic on a mic. The sound of an electric-acoustic on a good amp far surpasses that of a regular acoustic. Am I wrong? So now I'm thinking that maybe I should invest in a good electric-acoustic also.

I have a new dilemma though. When recording, which is the best way to go? Do you get yourself a good mic and record with a regular acoustic, or do you get better results from recording directly from the amp? Does it matter? I've always thought that recording directly would offer better results, but while I was searching through the forums I found that most people preferred using a mic with a regular acoustic.

So what do you think? Which is better when playing live at some coffee house? What about when you're in the back of your friends pick-up truck and just messing around? What's the best way to go when recording? Is it based on the quality of the guitar regardless of whether or not it's acoustic or electric-acoustic? Is it based solely on the recording equipment or amp?
 
Lotto' questions there Loud :D

I have played and recorded with both...here is my experience:

Miking a regular acoustic guitar live kinda blows. First you have to sit in one place and pay attention that you don't move the guitar too much or you'll find your only playing for yourself. In coffee shops this is not too big of a deal but at a rock show it sucks.
Using an acoustic pickup in a regular acoustic tends to get too much feedback and creates more hassles than good in a live show. I assume if your Ozzy or something the soundguys are more than willing to spend the time to address the problem but more often than not at our shows (where you'd better be set up in 10 minutes or the time is coming off your setlist) it ended up with people saying "I could barely hear your acoustic" because the soundguy had the gain at .5 due to feedback.
Recording an acoustic is easy in the studio. It's all in the mikes and where you put them, and you can also run an acoustic pickup into the mix if you want to.

That said, I finally decided to get a real nice acoustic/electric. GC had a Tacoma Chief on sale for $800...I figured at 30% off the regular price how could I go wrong. Brought it home and put it through all the paces.... results:

Astouding sound when played through an amp. Very natural and you can tell the electronics were really made for this guitar. The whole body reverberates with tone. No feedback problems. The controls allowed me to contour the sound to exactly what I was looking for.

Miked it up for recording. Put two C-1 condenser mikes on it and ran it into Cubase. Again, fantastic sound. I decided to run a direct line in from the guitar without the mics. This time it took a bit of EQ'ing because the thing sounded so live I needed to soften it. Finally I decided to combine the two and that is what I do for my acoustic stuff now, stereo mikes and a direct line in. I mix the three signals to taste. Fat sound.

Now the acoustic/electric is the only acoustic I use.

That being said, keep in mind that a crappy instrument will yield crappy results, but I've had good results with fairly inexpensive Ovation acou/elec as well.

The playing live part, in my opinion, the acoustic/electric has too many advantages. In the studio, doesn't matter as much, just get a guitar that has good tone.
 
Heh, Loud...

So you use a combination of micing and direct recording? Interesting. Well, I've read (in the forums) that using a pick-up on a regular acoustic sucks and that if your going to use a regular acoustic, it requires and good mic. So I guess electric-acoustic is the way to go?

What about when it's unplugged? I've found electric-acoustics to sound bad when they're unplugged, at least not as good as regular acoustics.
 
Yo forte- Some fine tracks indeed have been played on an unplugged electric-acoustic. For recording, I like a cutaway, which can cut a little bit of the boom generated by a dreadnought or a jumbo. I record a Taylor 700CE through a coincedent pair of small diaphragm condensers (X-Y arrangement), one where the neck meets the body and the other below the sound hole to taste. I also go direct with the pickup through POD Pro to the board. In most cases, that line is a scratch track (gets deleted), but I might mix in a little with some effect or not, if I'm playing something that wants to growl.
One thing I'm sure of is if you play a Martin,Gibson,Taylor, Froggy Bottom,Rain Song, etc., you'll find that plenty of guitars with electric components in them sound just fine when they're not plugged in. You get what you pay for. On stage, I like the Fishman pickup in the Taylor through a Strawberry Blonde (small clubs) and into the PA from the amp if necessary for bigger rooms. Sometimes, though, especially jamming with old bluegrass guys, dynamic mics are cool, and the oldtimers will show off their often excellent technique. When I'm in the mood to play blues or rock, I will occasionally resort to an old Epiphone dreadnought with a DiMarzio magnetic pickup, or a solid body. For a steady diet, I prefer the phase reversal and notch control on the Fishman to feedback hell in SM-57 land.- Richie
 
I have two acoustic guitars.
One is a 25-year-old Yamaha dreadnaught, with a mahogany back, sides, and neck... and a spruce top.
The other is a new Epiphone Jumbo, which is 100% maple from top to bottom.... including the neck.

The Yamaha has a smooth, rich, warm sound.
Two days ago I played it side by side against a $1,500 Martin, and my old Yamaha sounded significantly better.
As a matter of fact, it sounds better than ANY Martin or Taylor that I've played up into the $2,500 range.
The only guitars I've ever heard that sounded better is my partner's '71 Yamaha FG-160 and a $3,000 Lowden jumbo that I played at a guitar show a few years ago.

It must've been built from a good tree. ;)

The Epiphone (...a copy of a Gibson J-200) has a sweet, bright, musical sound that records like a guitar worth 10 times the cost.
If you've ever heard any newer tunes from Travis Tritt or Alan Jackson, that's the sound it puts out.

Recently, I needed to upgrade both of my acoustics by adding a transducer system to each one... for live performances.
I put an L.R. Baggs Micro EQ System in the Epiphone, which sounds great.
I put a Fishman Transducer System in the Yamaha, and it also sounds incredible.
Each guitar has it's own unique sound, so I had to pick the electronics carefully for both of my guitars. The systems I chose made the most of the type of sound I'm getting from each guitar.

Anyway, since I've had the electronics installed I haven't noticed any tonal difference in either guitar. The only thing I noticed is that each one is heavier in weight, that's about it.

Should you have an acoustic guitar with a preamp and EQ?
Yes!... definitely!

Should you buy one with a factory set-up?
Well, only if it has a reputable system from a quality manufacturer like Fishman, L.R. Baggs, or Sunrise.

If you have an acoustic guitar you really like, then I'd add the electronics to what you've got.
That'll save you the time and expense of searching for a nice acoustic with electronics built-in.

As far as recording goes... ALWAYS use microphones!!!
I've tried the combo-route, using a large condenser and a direct-in from the acoustic. But NOTHING sounds as good as using good mics, a good room, and proper mic'ing techniques.
 
Mics for recording and pick ups for live. But rules are made to be broken (and I love to break rules):D .
I gigged with my Martin D-41 first with a Bill Lawrence in the sound hole and then went with a Barcus Berry set up where they drilled two holes in the bridge and glued in two transducers. I later sent the guitar to Nazerath to have that shit surgically removed and a new bridge put on. I decided to leave Marty at home and I picked up a Yamaha Acoustic electric with active electronics. Decent little guitar and I didn't feel near as bad when some one knocked it off the stand in a bar.
 
I found that I had been spending most of my playing time in a recording environment (here in my room). Hands down the best sound I was getting was from my accoustics that had built in electronics. That afforded me all the EQ and pre-amping my heart could enjoy. So I ended up cutting holes in a 12 string that I just loved "natural". That turned it into not only a great acoustic pick-up truck fireside sound...... but great electric as well.
 
Wow! Thanks guys! It never occurred to me that I can convert an acoustic into and electric-acoustic. You'll have to excuse me, I'm not to educated when it comes to those things. I guess that's why I'm here though. In fact, I really don't now what you guys mean when you say dreadnaught or jumbo. :confused: What do you mean.

Anyway, I guess it's just me - but the electric-acoustics I've heard never sound right when they're unplugged. I guess I'll have to keep looking. Thanks for the help. :D
 
So it refers to the shape of the guitar? Kind of like saying cutaway? Alright - cool.

So micing is best when recording - pick-ups when playing live, but mics are good too. Does that some it up? It seems that everyone is kinda of saying that acoustic-electrics don't really have any advantages- it's like most you just use pickups anyway. That is, except maybe Bass Master K who said:
Using an acoustic pickup in a regular acoustic tends to get too much feedback and creates more hassles than good in a live show.
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He seems to like the acoustic-electric when playing live. Do I have the right idea here?
 
Everything you need to know

http://www.b-band.com/new/index.shtml

This stuff is all Class A electronics. It sounds incredible. I retrofitted my old style Taylor 815C with an undersaddle ribbon transducer and an internal condenser mic, and the combination is pretty powerful. I do have a feedback problem with the condenser mic on loud stages because the guitar is big and boomy to begin with, but there are a few tricks to deal with that (EQ and a soundhole plug, for instance). Most of the time it's not a big issue, and the undersaddle doesn't feed back at all. (It does have its own sound, though, and I like to blend the two).

So far my stuff (click on www icon below) was recorded with a simple direct line in from the guitar to a Mackie board, into a soundblaster card in my computer. Aside from the hiss (and the neophyte mix), the guitar is pretty true.

B-band also now has the Entity system, including a great preamp / blender / EQ unit. Very nice price/performance ratio going on with those guys.

Also check out Presonus for a nice front end tube preamp / blender (MF has this with a footswitch to jump into higher gain lead and back), http://www.presonus.com/ , and Raven Labs - they have a killer preamp / EQ / blender. I'm edging towards the Presonus unit myself.
 
"Blender systems" tend to feed back because of the internal mic. They sound great, but can be a pain in the arse to work with.

"Acoustic pick-ups" like the Dean Markley ones that fit in the soundhole also feed back and make your guitar sound like a banjo. Forget it!

An "under-the-saddle transducer system" is the way to go these days.
Then pop a feedback buster into the soundhole and you're good to go! ;)
 
Buck 62- Good Blender systems like Fishman prefix plus include a slider from all transducer to all internal condenser mic and everything in between. That's why they are "blenders". If your having feedback issues, and you can't (or don't want to) eliminate it with notch control, on board EQ, or by reversing phase, just slide over closer to the "all transducer" side of the equation. My experience is that the system works best with mostly transducer blended with a judicious amount of internal mic. For a *huge* concert setting, I might have to go with all transducer, but frankly, they haven't called me lately to do Madison Square Garden.-Richie
 
I just wanted to thank everyone for their reply, it's been really enlightening. I'm going to research this stuff s'more, but you guys have a been a great help.
 
Forte said:
I just wanted to thank everyone for their reply, it's been really enlightening. I'm going to research this stuff s'more, but you guys have a been a great help.
Click to expand...

Cool! Now thats what I'm talking about!
Expressing that gratitude is the way man! ROCK ON! :cool:

Sheesh, I feel like Dr. Laura. :eek: :eek:
 
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As far as miking an acoustic, keep in mind that you are only going to get a tone as good as the guitar itself- no matter how good your mic is or how well it's placed, a bad guitar is still going to sound like a bad guitar. Quality counts here.
My personal opinion is that having the preamp installed in the guitar doesn't necessarily affect the tone that much. However, many acoustic electrics are also cutaways and that does have a pretty big affect on tone. I have a taylor 714ce now and I love it; but if I had to do it over again I'd get a 710 (same body style without the cutaway) and have a fishman blender system installed with an external preamp.
 
laaronx said:
I have a taylor 714ce now and I love it; but if I had to do it over again I'd get a 710 (same body style without the cutaway) and have a fishman blender system installed with an external preamp.
Click to expand...

The 714 is a grand auditorium body and is not the same as a dreadnaught like the 710. The Taylor grand auditoriums have more narrow bracing and less mass in the bracing, resulting in a little bit more treble and "zing" than a dreadnaught. The 710 has a bit more bass too.

The 714 and 710 are some of their best for my taste in guitars, the W15 walnut jumbo is also a dream Taylor. I've got a 414 (grand auditorium) and it almost sounds like a 12-string in certain registers. That's what sold me on it. The grand auditoriums are great fingerpicking geetars.
 
Can I ask you guys a question since we're on A/E topic:

I have a Seagull M12 (12-string). I'd like to add a p/u ...what's your experience and recommendation ?? There are some brands I've heard mentioned here such LR Baggs, Fishman, etc. What's best for a 12-string ??

Much appreciate your responses ...

Best Regard,
 
Well, I don't know about "best", but what you're looking for is something that will pick up nuances and not muddy or color the sound. This link is to PUTW contact pickups, which are getting a very good reputation in all kinds of sound board instruments, from mountain dulcimers to grand pianos.

http://www.pick-uptheworld.com
 
Thank you Treeline for the link ... Have you used or known anyone use their products ??... As long as the pick up isn't muddy or color the sound too much, it should be OK ...I just want a pick up that lets the 12-string sounds like a 12-string ...

I understand that Seagull put a LR Baggs model in some of their models ...

Best Regard
 
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