Pre Amp Question

[4tracker]

Hey guys. So I feel after learning a lot on my focusrite gear, I'm ready to experiment a bit. The thing I don't like about the focusrite (18i8) is it sounds cold/brittle on certain things, so I am trying to figure out what my options are regarding a preamp. I've used the focusrite as a preamp and audio interface both so everything I do is through that right now. If I get a dedicated preamp with color (tube?), do I need to keep the focusrite to use as a digital converter? Most preamps I see don't have digital converters. Can I plug a tube preamp into the focusrite for converting? In general I'm not sure how I'd expand this setup to include a better preamp.

Also, if I get a dedicated preamp, and then run it through the focusrite for conversion and to get the signal into the daw, does the focusrite negate the colored sound of the preamp? This would make any upgrade moot.

Finally, can you give me some recommendations for a nice preamp with a colored sound? My budget is about 1k max and I'm willing to buy used.

Thanks.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hi,
I can't give any preamp recommendations but I can tell you there are two main ways you could do this.

One is to buy a preamp with built in converters. That will have spdif output or some other digital output so your focusrite is acting purely as a data interface.
The other option is to buy a preamp with line level outputs and run that into one of the free line inputs on the back of your focusrite interface.
In this case the focusrite converters are at work and the focusrite preamps are not.

Some interfaces don't have additional dedicated line inputs. That's where you'd have the question of whether or not it's worth using a third party preamp, because you'd berating it into some sort of combo input.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[miroslav]

There are a LOT of options for $1k...especially if you are talking single channel, but you can find very decent 2-cannel pres in that price range, and especially if you buy used.

Color....mmmm, tubes are only part of that picture, so don't assume it has to be a tube pre....that said, some tube pres do certainly add a lot of color, but it's the whole design, not just the tube.

OK...so here's a couple suggestions off the top of my head.
I have a 4-channel Sebatron preamp that certainly can do some nice color/fatness if you want it.
It's a favorite of mine, and I do have a few others in my rack. Comes with some neat EQ options too.
They make the same thing in one, two and 4 channel boxes. You could get a 2-channel in your price range.
Look 'em up on the net for more info and retail options. They are made in Australia, but available here.
You might even want to check eBay for used.

Another option would be the UA 610...single or dual channel. Now there's a lot of color, maybe even more than you want.
There's also the combo options for the 610 that might interest you...with a couple of different comp choices.

Finally, something I've been considering and quite inexpensive for what you get...is the Warm Audio TB12 Tone Beast. It's a single channel, but only $600. It's not tube, but you have some transformer options with it that let you add all kinds of color.
Check out their website for info.

Steen covered the other stuff about how to connect.....

 

[4tracker]

Hi,
The other option is to buy a preamp with line level outputs and run that into one of the free line inputs on the back of your focusrite interface.
In this case the focusrite converters are at work and the focusrite preamps are not.

Thanks this would probably be the route I go. The Universal Solo/610 has an xlr out with a line option. So are you saying it would just be a matter of running and XLR out from that unit into a 1/4" line in on the back of the focusrite?

At that point the focusrite is just converting?

 

[4tracker]

There are a LOT of options for $1k...especially if you are talking single channel, but you can find very decent 2-cannel pres in that price range, and especially if you buy used.

Color....mmmm, tubes are only part of that picture, so don't assume it has to be a tube pre....that said, some tube pres do certainly add a lot of color, but it's the whole design, not just the tube.

OK...so here's a couple suggestions off the top of my head.
I have a 4-channel Sebatron preamp that certainly can do some nice color/fatness if you want it.
It's a favorite of mine, and I do have a few others in my rack. Comes with some neat EQ options too.
They make the same thing in one, two and 4 channel boxes. You could get a 2-channel in your price range.
Look 'em up on the net for more info and retail options. They are made in Australia, but available here.
You might even want to check eBay for used.

Another option would be the UA 610...single or dual channel. Now there's a lot of color, maybe even more than you want.
There's also the combo options for the 610 that might interest you...with a couple of different comp choices.

Finally, something I've been considering and quite inexpensive for what you get...is the Warm Audio TB12 Tone Beast. It's a single channel, but only $600. It's not tube, but you have some transformer options with it that let you add all kinds of color.
Check out their website for info.

Steen covered the other stuff about how to connect.....

Thanks man, interestingly I was looking at the UA 610 and tonebeast based on my own research. Do you have any other recommendations?

 

[4tracker]

miro, i found this review about the 610


Watch your impedances!

This is a great preamp - for low impedance mics. For example, paired up with a 50� TLM 103, it is outstanding. A fabulous combo. But driving low-output mics (which typically have 3-12 times more "ohm-age" than most condensers - i.e. dynamics and ribbons), you won't get a fabulous sound. This is because the two impedance setting on the Solo are 450� (Lo-Z) and 1600� (Hi-Z) for the mic channel. A 600� ribbon mic SHOULD have an input load of at least 5 times that, so 3000�. Hence why my ribbons usually sound boomy and flat on the Solo/610. Just be aware! Granted, impedance matching is mostly a theoretical concept, real-world sound varies from preamp to preamp - but not on this pre! Being thus armed, you should be able to get a great sound out of this box if you know it's limits!


i use ribbons a lot, and use a fethead to boost their signal. do you own a 610, and if so, do you find this review true? i also use hi-z (~1100-1300) harp mics a lot, so wondering how those would play out.

i mostly want a dedicated preamp so i can drive up the gain and saturate vocals (the focusrite sounds too clean and brittle to me) and warm up acoustic guitar (again, too brittle on digital/clean preamps for my taste). Not sure if this piece of gear will work for what I'm trying to do, or I'm better off using a saturation plugin.

 

[ashcat_lt]

miro, i found this review about the 610
i use ribbons a lot, and use a fethead to boost their signal. do you own a 610, and if so, do you find this review true?

fethead is an inline active preamp thing that makes the whole thing moot. The mic sees the impedance of the the fethead, not the rack preamp, and I'm sure it can drive the preamp just fine.

i also use hi-z (~1100-1300) harp mics a lot, so wondering how those would play out.

Those want to be plugged into actual Hi-Z inputs. A 10K line input might do, but they're almost meant to drive guitar amps, so you could plug it into a Hi-Z "Instrument" input and be fine. A 3K mic input would be too low, and will have a noticeable effect on both tone and overall level.

i mostly want a dedicated preamp so i can drive up the gain and saturate vocals (the focusrite sounds too clean and brittle to me) and warm up acoustic guitar (again, too brittle on digital/clean preamps for my taste). Not sure if this piece of gear will work for what I'm trying to do, or I'm better off using a saturation plugin.

Personally, I'd just capture it with a clean flat pre and mess it up (filter, distort, etc) in the box where I have all kinds of different options and ultimately more control of what comes out. Many will disagree, some violently.

 

[4tracker]

fethead is an inline active preamp thing that makes the whole thing moot. The mic sees the impedance of the the fethead, not the rack preamp, and I'm sure it can drive the preamp just fine.


Those want to be plugged into actual Hi-Z inputs. A 10K line input might do, but they're almost meant to drive guitar amps, so you could plug it into a Hi-Z "Instrument" input and be fine. A 3K mic input would be too low, and will have a noticeable effect on both tone and overall level.


Personally, I'd just capture it with a clean flat pre and mess it up (filter, distort, etc) in the box where I have all kinds of different options and ultimately more control of what comes out. Many will disagree, some violently.

Thanks, buddy. Interesting take on it all. I can see both sides, so maybe if I find a good deal on a preamp I'll go for it and mess with both options and figure out what I like.

It looks like the hi-z on the UA610 is 1.6 kilohms, and the lo-z is 450 ohms.

How do you think the hi-z setting would effect a 1200 or so hi-z harp mic?

Also the UA610 has a DI. I wonder if this would provide better matching for my guitars with regard to amp sims. I wish I knew more about impedance. Reading about it gave me a headache, tbh.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Thanks this would probably be the route I go. The Universal Solo/610 has an xlr out with a line option. So are you saying it would just be a matter of running and XLR out from that unit into a 1/4" line in on the back of the focusrite?

At that point the focusrite is just converting?

Exactly.
I have eight racked preamp modules from an old console here running into the 8 line inputs of my Motu interface.
Nothing in the way but the converters.