Mail Order vs. Pro Store Experience

L

littledog

New member
I just had a very interesting experience that you may find informative. I recently received a mailing from a mail order superstore that I have hardly ever done business with. I buy almost everything significant from local pro audio dealers because i get better prices and much better service. All I ever usually get mail order or from prosumer stores are things like cables, music stands, and other accessories.

This particular company has been after my business for a while (I won't mention any names to protect the innocent/guilty, and to avoid any potential lawsuits...) and the other day they sent me a post card with a special offer - namely that for the month of July they would give me their "employee accomodation" prices on anything I wanted to purchase from them. Ostensibly that meant the special discounts that their own staff would get if they were to buy these items themselves. While not identifying the specific company, I will say that this is one that we all know, and that they take many pages of advertising out every month in almost all of the music magazines published in the USA.

Sounded like a great opportunity! So I called them up and got quotes on a number of things i was considering buying at some point, and the prices did seem pretty good. So I decided to do an experiment.

I called my local pro audio dealer and without telling him anything about the mail-order offer and/or prices, I asked him to give me some prices on the same items. I will stress again that the local dealer had no inkling he was in a competition for my business, so he had no special incentive to give me any more than my usual consideration in pricing.

You may find the following results interesting:

Waves Platinum TDM Bundle Upgrade:
List - $1200
Mail Order - $850
Local pro - $749

Antares Autotune TDM:
List - $599
Mail Order - $449
Local pro - $389

Soundelux U99 mic:
List - $2500
Mail Order - $1850
Local pro - $1669

Soundelux U195 mic:
List - $1350
Mail Order - $865
Local Pro - $799

Beyer M160 mic:
List - $699
Mail Order - $550
Local pro - $499

Summit TD100 DI:
List - $495
Mail Order - $375
Local Pro - $359

Raxxcess IsoRAXX (14 space):
List - $1299
Mail Order - $855
Local Pro - $699


I think the above data speaks for itself. But what makes it even more remarkable was that the mail order company was representing these prices as a "once in a lifetime" opportunity, whereas my local pro dealer was just giving me his regular pricing, and yet still blew the "employee accomodation" prices out of the water!!! Imagine how much more differential there would have been if I had NOT been getting the "employee" prices.

The purpose of this thread, by the way, is to show the real value in establishing a "preferred customer" relationship with a real pro audio dealer. You get the best advice, tech support, loaners, and other service that way. Maybe some of you have found even cheaper prices on some of these items, but that is not the point of this discussion.
 
Lil Dog your in Boston, you have a lot of excellent dealers within a 1 hours drive or so..I belive that havein' a relationship with a local is the best way to get prices also..I have a few here that take me back to their holding rooms{used gear must be held for a period of time I belive}to let me get first dibs on used gear at great prices{god I'm cheap!LOL}..Ive always see Brick and morter outlets as less expensive for the most part..


Don
 
yeah...I don't get much stuff at Sweetwater either. Their sales reps are hard to reach most of the time, and they're expensive;)

Living in Boston does make a major difference.[speaking from personal experience] Gilbertsville, Ky...well you can't even find guitar strings.
 
Now remember, it was you who used the "S' word, not me!!!;)

While it might not be quite the same, I would guess that even establishing a remote phone/shipping relationship with a trusted pro dealer would be worthwhile for those of you who live in less dealer-populated areas. Oft times good dealers will ship you multiple units to compare in your own studio for a week or two.
 
Littledog- Gee I live in the Boston area, which "local dealer" do you use, because his price point is very good on some high end gear.- Richie
 
Two towns right down the road from you heading east on Route 9, Richie. Couldn't be more convenient for you.

If if that's not enough of a hint, PM me. I'll also give you the name of my particular guy at the place who's really excellent.

Those prices are "da bomb!" aren't they?

I'm getting the Waves Upgrade, Autotune, and the IsoRAXX immediately. The rest will have to wait a bit, since i just dropped 5+ grand on a PT HD2 upgrade.

But I REALLY want that U99! (Fantasizing about a Stephen Paul mod...)
 
Well, some of those online 'mail order' deals DO indeed look rather good upon first inspection....BUT, I for one, would never buy any serious gear or products that way......

Even if the price is higher I will always get music equipment from one of the local pro stores right here in Toronto - for two main reasons....

1) I always want to try out ANY item on a 30 day no hassel return policy - before I actually decide to keep it.....

and....

2) IF there is a defect or problem, etc...I want to be able to return it quickly for a replacement....or exchange, etc...

Plus one always builds up a friendly relationship with the stores over time, so that you can try out all kinds of stuff with no hassle and get better deals in the long run.

KEV
 
ive bought one item from sweetwater and got an incredible deal.

roland vg88 v guitar system with free pickup for 795! the pickup costs 200$ and ive never seen the vg88 for less than 795 and no pickup.

i saw it on the website so i called to order it and the "service rep" tried to rip me off to the tune of over a thousand including shipping and cable. he told me i needed to buy the 18-pin cable seperately. so i hung up on him.

i ordered it from the website and paid maybe 11$ shipping and got great service.

i can see that if you have a "special" relationship with a dealer you can get better deals...

you probably have to spend enough to keep him happy and he has to make up the difference somehow doesnt he?

beware of shady sales reps! :p
 
Well, Littledog, I've been to the store you mentioned, on the off chance that I would find some used rack unit that would fit the scheme. I confess they mostly handle high end gear that's a little out of my bottom feeder price range.
Now it's confession time- I actually know a competent, well informed engineer/salesman at Guitar Center in Natick, Andy Ryder, who runs Digitrax, and I have worked some excellent deals through him, and he has often steered me to better gear at a lower price point. I'm a weird fan of AKG D690, a discontinued dynamic which I use by choice wherever most of y'all would use SM57/58, and it is also my stage mic of choice. I figured I'd better get another just to have a pair before I can no longer get them. I picked one up ysterday for $32.78 plus tax. I couldn't even find one on line. While I was at it, I picked up an MK319 for $99, which I consider a useful addition to the cabinet. 20' B.L.U.E. KIWI quad cables- I got 4 for $19 each.
I know based on what I've read here that I may be working with the only real sales professional in GC, but he has frankly saved me bizzillions of bucks buying gear I don't need. Yeah, he's a salesman, which means he'd rather I buy gear that he can sell, but whenever I've checked his suggestions with independant consultants, I have found no bullshit. Unfortunately, he's getting married in August and leaving the area. Until then, I value my personal sales relationships as much as you do. I'm afraid my purse is smaller, though, and I'm doing my best to go the Harvey route- do more with less.-Richie
 
Richard, I agree. I think the Guitar Center in Boston is definitely not the typical GC scenario. They even have a new pro shop at a seperate location in Brighton (by appointment only?) run by PK, who is very knowledgeable and a good guy. Unlike the regular Guitar Center stock consisting of mostly Focusrite Platinum quality and below, PK stocks Tube Tech, Drawmer, Manley, Distressors, Focusrite Red, Avalon, Alan Smart, etc. In addition he keeps a wide variety of unusual and one of a kind vintage high end gear including custom rack mounted Neve modules.

But from what i understand, the rest of the country isn't so fortunate as far as having that kind of resource under the Guitar Center flag.

P.S. - I like those BLUE cables too!
 
ok then how about latin percussion tunable wood bongos with skin heads for 15$? i saw it on the web and figured it was a mistake. they list for close to 100$. i ordered them and it took a while but i got them. musician's friend.

akg k100 headphones list 130$ paid 20$. musician's friend.

and then there was the dearmond blowout...

ADMIT IT!!!

YOU CAN GET DEALS BY UPS!!!

the nearest decent stores to me are like 2 hrs away. i dont have much of a choice!
 
The GC here has a pretty good stock of Avalons and Manleys. What they dont have are any of the cheap mics or pre's. I don't think there's a single JoeMeek in this town.
 
As I understand it, GC here. at least, no longer handles Joemeek, I had to get my twinQ from Macmidimusic. They handle some ART, Presonus, and DBX mostly for cheap pres. Their entry level mics are Oktava and Audix, and move up to Groove Tubes, AT,Rode,AKG, and B.L.U.E./Neumann is top shelf. It is depressing, though to hear *almost everybody* here bashing them when not only have I gotten some really wicked deals out of them, but *some* of their pro audio staff has spent a lot of time mapping out cable routing for me, suggested less expensive and more effective alternatives to stuff I was ready to pay for, and answered the tough questions about impedence matching etc. That's why I responded to this thread. I haven't spent a lot of money there because I'm stupid or ignorant. I've developed exactly the kind of relationships there that Littledog is talking about, and on top of it, they have beat everybody's price on gear I need. What the hell- Richie
 
wascal said:
ok then how about latin percussion tunable wood bongos with skin heads for 15$? i saw it on the web and figured it was a mistake. they list for close to 100$. i ordered them and it took a while but i got them. musician's friend.

akg k100 headphones list 130$ paid 20$. musician's friend.

and then there was the dearmond blowout...

ADMIT IT!!!

YOU CAN GET DEALS BY UPS!!!

the nearest decent stores to me are like 2 hrs away. i dont have much of a choice!
Click to expand...

wascal:

i think you are doing EXACTLY the right thing - check all the sources you have access to and know through personal research what actually IS a really good deal and what ISN'T.

no one said you can't find good deals at musician's friend, AMS, Sweetwater, Guitar Center, MARS, or whatever. Especially on lower cost or discontinued items. I've often taken advantage of deals like the ones you keep mentioning at all those places. Good work!

What i find troublesome is someone contacting me with the claim that they are offering me a "once in a lifetime" opportunity, only to find out it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to overpay.

Sometime stores like guitar center buy out all the remaining stock on a discontinued model from a manufacturer at a ridiculously low price, and sell it for cheap. No one is saying you shouldn't grab them up when you find them.

But someday you may get to the point where you are doing more than an impulse buy. Then it is more than just price that will dictate the final decision. Let's say you are considering one of the following scenarios:

1) You need one killer multifx box. You've been hearing great things about the Kurzweil KSP8, but how does it really stack up to the Eventide Orville?

2) I'd like a great compressor, but for my needs, am I better off with a Manley Vari-mu or buying a couple of Distressors?

Wouldn't it be nice if you had someplace you could go that would:

a) lend you the above units to take home and compare on your favorite vocalist or guitar player?

b) wouldn't automatically recommend buying the unit with the highest price and/or mark-up?

c) might even suggest a third alternative that was just as good and EVEN CHEAPER!

I'd say that kind of relationship is worth even a couple of hours drive. And it's even possible to establish it over the phone, if you are really in the hinterlands. After all, are you REALLY going to trust advicefrom a company who sends out a catalog with the following analysis:

"The 3630 is perfect for almost every high-end audio situation..." :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

(actual excerpt from a 2002 catalog that i'm sure most of us have received in the mail.)
 
"The 3630 is perfect for almost every high-end audio situation." :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Perhaps they ment as a percussion device...Played with hammers I would bet..LOL



Don
 
the question for me is:

how much would i be willing to pay to avoid a 4hr driving trip combined with a potentially "distressing" visit to a store?
 
The main issue for ME between buying gear online / mail-order, as apposed to from your local pro musicain store....would be the obvious anticipated hassle associated with returning goods that are defect or that I just 'don't like' when up close & personal or whatever, plus the convenience of actually being able to DEMO equipment close by with no obligation, etc...

How do the mail-order folks match up in this regard???

Recently, when I was in the market to buy a new audio card...I demo'd about 6-7 products at home before I bought the OMNI/Delta 66 set-up....all supplied by my local L&M store.....

I couldn't imagine being able to do this with an onlline retailer...so for serious MUSIC gear, I woudn't consider it....

However, I DO buy quite a bit of my pro *running* clothing online....but that's coz I'm very familar with the brands and know the items I'm purchasing...

KEV
 
ONE THING THAT MAKES ME SHUDDER IS THE THOUGHT OF ALL YOU DOODZ oops caps

all you doodz who try things out and then return them. i dont want to pay new prices for used goods.

when you return all this stuff does the store check everything to make sure it hasnt been misused? how would they be able to tell if its been ruined? do they test everything? i doubt it.

ive been slipped a couple of repacks and it pisses me off. anybody who returns stuff should be charged a restocking fee and the item should be sold as b-stock.

i keep hearing about all these doodz who buy 4 items to keep one and return the rest.
 
Nah....I never buy or try out more than one thing at a time....and I usually ONLY return something "IF" it really doesn't live up to expectations and/or is faulty in some way....

I always do a ton of research on a product before I take it for a spin... in some instances one simply MUST 'demo' in order to make sure it delivers the promised goods....

YOU wouldn''t buy a CAR without taking it out for a thorough test drive - would you? - so why not expensive music equipment.....I guess most vehicles on the lot are technically "used items" so perhaps we should always just pay 2nd hand prices :-)

Unfortunately, there's so much marketplace HYPE to contend with these days - so trying out product before buying is a must in MY books....

KEV
 
wascal said:

all you doodz who try things out and then return them. i dont want to pay new prices for used goods.

when you return all this stuff does the store check everything to make sure it hasnt been misused? how would they be able to tell if its been ruined? do they test everything? i doubt it.

ive been slipped a couple of repacks and it pisses me off. anybody who returns stuff should be charged a restocking fee and the item should be sold as b-stock.

i keep hearing about all these doodz who buy 4 items to keep one and return the rest.
Click to expand...

Good point, wascal.

That's exactly what happens at some places, including Guitar Center - they make you buy the items you demo in advance, then go through the hassle of returning the ones you don't want. And then what about poor wascal who unwittingly buys it thinking it is "new"???

That's NOT how it works where i do business. If I want to try something, they pull a demo unit out of their rack and send me home with it. I sign a piece of paper, but I don't give them a cent. It may have some cosmetic imperfections, but shouold work like new. If they don't have a demo unit, they sometimes get one from a manufacturer's rep.

I try them out. I decide. Then, if I choose, I can return the demo unit and order a brand new one at a great price. Or, if i can't bear to part with it, I'll ask them for a price to buy the Demo unit itself - which usually is even a BETTER deal.

This way, no one is buying anyone else's rejects, unless it is for an even deeper discount.

For me it's only an hour (plus or minus) each way - and most of my contact is on the phone. If it was two hours, I'd still do it. Probably not worth the trip for a $50 purchase (although there is that cool little invention you should check out I mentioned earlier called a telephone), but for a couple of thousand, yeah... definitely!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top