FMR RNC 1773- rabbit hole in 2020

[CoolCat]

into the rabbit hole I went.....

the cheap compressors, that pros use.... FMR RNC.....DBX 160?AXXT....

first was the Steve Albini, he even says in a video "the RNC are as good as his $5000 ones" not verbatim...but thats him, the dude whose recorded Nirvana to 2000+ other bands....

then Ronan Murphey, same comment, "RNC is on all the mixes..."

but then I was looking for what is it used on specifically and both the big names mention it as stereo bus.

I was thinking vocal, bass, guitars...aka.....tracking.
So looking into Steves long list of gear, I went through all the dynamics and a couple stuck out with the word VOCAL...which was a old AMPEX and a Manley comp.

so yeah, for $185 its a great little box. lets say it does its skill better than I can do mine...lol
still theres the reality check too. Its almost amazing how many times the RNC is parroted "must be great steve albini has 4 of them!!!"
Its a great compliment to the piece of gear, but it doesnt mean hes using it as his only one....or hes even using it at all on Bass Tracking or Vocal tracking....instead it seems more a Stereo Mix buss piece, like the $5000 GML comp is...and Steve says they are both up to that task.

I saw one band recorded and the band posted gear notes from Steve Albini session, and they mentioned Vocals: U48 and Manley....1176 UREI....

There is a video by some HR dude who does show the most common negative compliment of Bass Guitar makes the RNC distort/artifacts...and he also shows the common fix which is increase the release time. But points for showing this much posted issue and how its not really an issue.

this is the 4th time Ive bought the FMR RNC. It was my first comp, then sold it as I went through gear, then tried it and then thought plugins were fine, but now Im interested in a light smoothing comp, for cheap to see if its what I need.

thats my take on the RNC rabbit hole.....thanks to Steve Albini for the videos and his Electrical Audio site listing his tools and brief comments. interesting...

 

[notCardio]

I've always wanted one, not because of him but just because of the general consensus that it was pretty subtle and easy to use. And I could never even afford IT, let alone the more expensive competition.

It's still on my list. I'd like an RNP too, but that's much less important in my equation for the time being. Or probably ever.

So, since you've had them, was 'super nice' mode all that?

 

[CoolCat]

I remember it was a "f(*&(* yeah! " moment the first time. I had got the info here on HR....in those days the DMP3 was big talk, the RNC with it ..was a great combo....(and the Yorkville monitors (still working and sounding great after 15yrs of hard use...everyday use in general)(I revisited the DMP3 too recently)

GAS talk- skip to last line for a one line opinion to your question...
but yes not having any comps before this, only plugging various mics into a Yamaha MD8 board direct, it was a thinner hollow sound....I took advice and tried the DMP3 & RNC and it was very "studio sounding". very noticeable. Back then used ones were $80 or so...in SNMode.

but being like a junkie, the brain buzz to get even MORE!! to get even BETTER buzz....so I traded/sold for a $400 JoeMeek!! because it cost more it had to even better right?!!! and it was a great piece but not "better" and thats where the bummer came in that buying more expensive gear didnt really guarantee sounding better.

I dont recall the other times I bought the RNC other than getting it and trying something and comparing to plug-ins w/ Realtime Tracking PlugINs and I sold it again, bascially the cables and wall warts stuff wasnt needed. eventually I bought the $1600 comps and pres to seek that GAS elation again...and after the beauty of the artwork, again it wasnt 100 times better than the DMP3&RNC...actually Id agree they sounded as good as the others only totally their own thing and yet a lot cheaper in cost. So it was kind of a downer the higher end gear didnt make my recordings go anywhere really.

My own confusion is I dont use RNC on a Mix Buss's though.....my only goal was a hybrid setup where Tracking can have some fast solid Tracks and all the heavy dynamics tone shaping comps and EQ go into the MIX stage. From what I read SuperNice Mode is vocal, and then for instruments take it out and the RELEASE has to be turned to 2 or 3 to get rid of weird buzz on bass....ymmv


So this time around it will be used as a small "smooth" tool with light work. I can already assume, with some mouse work, a plugin can do the same if you have realtime. The thing is as you mention, if you never hear one in your room its left as a unknown or someone elses opinion. So really all I would say is you can achive the same sound in PlugINs but probably not as easily (wow Im sounding like a parrot from what I was told?)

The whole thing is in the rabbit hole you find the <$400 comps pro's use?!! threads and they lead around and some will claim the Behringer Comp is better for $40 used! or someone likes the $100 Aphex Comp better! etc...etc...

Steve Albini and Ronan Chris Murphy have had the real $$$$$$ gear in use and they own the FMR RNC and give it thumbs up, but both mentioned on the Mix Buss...so I dont even have a Mix Buss really?....but I have always liked Ronan's posts and his website, and like you said "we cant afford U47 originals to compare to" LOL...so yeah I'll take their word for it and a lot of people here. If you rabbit hole on the RNC, there are times people are sick of hearing about the RNC or reading about it because it was "too popular" ...maybe saturated threads.

You can almost observe in the rabbit reading hole as gear comes, saturates, then fades off to a normal less discussed piece of gear.
PlugINs for me came in at some point and that really is a game changer, and so..the is Hardware Needed? debates.

Reading a old SOS article, they went to a dudes apartment to improve his mixes. He had a $3400 Channel strip....but getting to the point Paul White and the SOS ended up not using anything of the $3400 channel strip, recommended he stay clean going in and doing the color-tone shaping ITB at Mixdown....
I thought, so HR dudes like myself can muck stuff up going in/Tracking and adding too much comp, too much bad EQ choices early on...better to go in clean
and do the MIX stuff later. Seriously I was about to buy one to test at home...and I read this article and thought? wow? so the $3400 channel strip ..they ended up only telling the HR dude to use the clean preamps and bypass the eq and lmiter?.....but Clean Preamps can be a Interface Preamp or a Cloudlifter for $149....

YMMV... If you have realtime plugin tracking ability, and no cash for outboard, I dont think either one is better or worse. Its pretty common now with 24bit a person doesnt "need" a comp at all in tracking...some want to smooth it a little (which again can be done by a plugin.)

Some enjoy the hardware and have disposable income...so why not?

 

[CoolCat]

I've always wanted one, not because of him but just because of the general consensus that it was pretty subtle and easy to use. And I could never even afford IT, let alone the more expensive competition.

It's still on my list. I'd like an RNP too, but that's much less important in my equation for the time being. Or probably ever.

So, since you've had them, was 'super nice' mode all that?

I'll bet the RNP and RNC is a great combo. So is the DMP3 and RNC.

What application are you wanting it to do? Vocals or Bass or Conga/Percussion? Mix Buss?

My 2020 setup is Mic/Dynamic > Cloudlifter > Aphex 207 ch1....it really is solid and cheap..Ch 1.
CH 2 is a Radial JDI > Aphex 207 ch2 its easy, fat as anything else Ive owned and gets a good signal anytime.
Total Cloud + JDI + 207...approx $550...and a $185 for RNC, is now $735 ish...for 2qty channels.

If you dont mind the mouse, imo...plugins cant be beat. You have unlimited quantity of them! I slap my Klanghelm comps on ALL the tracks...etc.. I can add my free Fairchild 670 plug onto 12 tracks! with recall....how could anyone afford 12qty Fairchilds who has a working poor man job?

as I gear talk...the ART TPS , dual preamp + comp / fx comes to mind, with Impedance control etc...and for a desktop dude, it has the XLR/1/4" Neutrik jacks on the front...I bought a used one once about $100....and it really is a great tool to go from clean to I Am The Walrus distortion...(made for guitars and bass tones too) and has some fun Tubes you can roll.

Ill be honest I liked the ART TPS better than my LA610 SE for a lot of reasons. ..not all about cash.

 

[notCardio]

Well, I thought the SM mode was supposed to mostly be good specifically on bass and mix buss. But now that most people are doing it ITB, I'm not even sure how you would do an external mix buss. I'm sure it can be done, like reamping, but I'd have to take some time to figure it out. But I thought part of the point of SN mode was supposed to be that you didn't hose things up too much going in, just kind of smoothed the rough edges. It's not like I'll ever have one anyway, just curious. And I do have a DMP3.

 

[CoolCat]

me too, how would you do a mix buss on a DAW interface system?

the FMR RNC arrived. I think my notes say Ive had one here 3 times before..
This is the first brand new one.
Its packed plainly but well done. Comes with power supply, compressor in air-tight sealed bag. $185 no tax free shipping Front End Audio.

I plan to do the bass first.
1) JDI to outboard preamp
2) JDI to outboard preamp + FMR RNC

I dont see using it on mixing ? I guess a Interface Line Out to the RNC then bring it back in to a Line In, two channel...wouldnt be too hard to do. Do they touch the mix with some hardware compression...Maybe smooth out all the tracks to give them some cohesive sound?

got a great little MONSTER POWER unit for 8 receptacles for $20! at music-go-round...really nice and quiet and removed the $5 strip. love cheap bargain bin stuff in mint condition...

 

[CoolCat]

hooked it up, one TRS cable...nice Monster TRS 6ft, gold plugs someone left here years ago...

test 1- noise floor....RNC added no noise, very quiet. this one is brand new and has the 12V ps, not the old 9v.

Test 2- Hookup- simple
1/4" TRS into the preamp INSERT...then the 1/4" TRS into the RNC Input.
For this particular preamp the gain knob does increase/decrease the volume to the RNC input.
So RNC is a dual compressor which fits my dual preamp perfect....need 2qty TRS 1/4" cables.

Im not sure what input the RNC is looking for? but the SM58>Cloudlifter>AphexPreAmp = -18 to -6 peaks on vocal...say -12 average.
The RNC required about -15db to -20db Threshold to get some noticeable response. Im not screaming, but Im not whispering either.

Sound Test 3- the RNC can remove the peaks and lock the wave down without adding much color or mud. I had to turn the Threshold to -20db to really get the comp leds toshow compression going on. The -15 or -10, nothing. I put it on 0.2msec attack and 0.3ms release on Vocal and not much heard.
The wave form and meters shows the excat numbers, say -18 Threshold the meters on the DAW show -18 and not much allowed to go above the -18.

I dont know the application of mix buss, I can imagine its a lot louder and full freq, at -6 or close to 0db and the compressor would be seeing a lot more work load. Using a comp for a weak/normal vocal isnt much work load. I dont think this vocal application a clean outboard compressor is needed, ymmv. There was nothing close to clipping but the RNC could be a huge peace of mind one can imagine, if recording a energetic band or drummer or even a screaming singer who has less energy control....the RNC or plug in would smooth it out. The RNC would smooth it with almost no added sound-tone change if set up right.

which leads to "colorful"....its not a 1176 or LA2A cranksmashed.... its not a FX box, imo.

again I have no idea what Albini and Ronan Chris Murphy do with these units on the mix buss.
they claim they are as good as $5000 units is an interesting comment.
let me look here, do I have any $5000 comps laying around...er...nope...cant do that test.

I dont think I'll keep it, I might send it back and apply funds to a FX Tracking dirty Comp....KA76 or GAP2A.

ADD> I slapped the bass a bit, RNC on and off....with a -20db Threshold I could see it catching peaks more often. I didnt hear any of the fuzz tone at lower release levels but again my JDI>PReamp is set around -18 to -12 ish....so setting the RNC at -18 or less didnt show any action required, setting at -20 and the leds would catch peaks all through my picking/spiked playing. Still not a need for a clipping protection device in my application.
There was more tone sound, the comp'd bass was noticeable a bit more rounded and mellow...I actually like it on the Bass better than Vocal? which goes against several bass player posts...I wonder if they were overdriving the input much louder than I am...I didnt hear any fuzz bass with RELEASE set at minimum or higher. I play more McCartney style than ACDC or KISS though...so maybe not the same slamming bass approach.

ADD> Great River preamps Manual ....
Patch
This patch jack or insert point jack is a 1/4" TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) type. The Tip is send, the Ring
is return, and the Sleeve is ground. The nominal level is approximately -10dBv.
Great River Tips:
This is a great place to plug in an RNC ™ compressor! The Speck ASC™ also works great here.
You can also plug “stomp box” type effects units into this loop. Obviously the performance of the
chain will be limited by the effects box, but it may be just the sound you want.

 

[CoolCat]

I fixed my car myself, I figure that saved $400.....so I spent $215 on getting a 2nd drive with the Alctron MP73v2 (Great River copy thats a copyish of the Neve 73...)....

plugged the FMR RNC into that.

I could see the RNC working much more on the Bass playing, not so much on my SM58 vocal (unless the RNC was near max threshold).
Still you can hear the RNC if max'd threshold but if just touching it the RNC is invisible to my ears but is working hard per the LED's.?
Working as designed as I understand it.

ran a unbalanced 1/4" from the send of the MP73 to the IN on the RNC, the out of the rnc to the return on the mp73.

both are very quiet, -60db noise floor per the Reaper ..

ADD some gut shots: Alctron MP73 v2....WIMAS and DISCRETE and frkn heavy!!! three audio transformers,..really nice.

 

[TAE]

I fixed my car myself, I figure that saved $400.....so I spent $215 on getting a ...insert whatever you are gassing for...

LOL I do the same silly justifying thing all the time...

 

[RRuskin]

I've always wanted one, not because of him but just because of the general consensus that it was pretty subtle and easy to use. And I could never even afford IT, let alone the more expensive competition.

It's still on my list. I'd like an RNP too, but that's much less important in my equation for the time being. Or probably ever.

So, since you've had them, was 'super nice' mode all that?

It's actually called, "really nice mode." It's purpose is to make the compression as invisible as possible and it does exactly that. The incoming signal is held where it's placed in the mix with nothing added. That is what I want in a compressor most of the time.