Using samples with Recorded Drums

Do you use drum samples in your recordings?


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I mistakenly posted this within the Computer Recording forum (although I guess it could be related).

I love recording drums as I feel they are the basis of the entire song.

But sometimes I feel I need to add a little embelishment by replacing performed parts with samples... no disrespect intended to the wonderful drummers out there.

I always record the entire kit, and then replace what I feel might be beneficial to the particular tune.

I usually only replace the Bass drum... sometimes the toms. The overheads and snare always stay in the mix (although there may be something in the future, I just cannot predict, where I take them out).

Thoughts? Suggestions? Curses?

Chad
www.thelogicmusic.com
www.chadaustin.com
 
Meanwhile, back in the Therapist's chair

.... I don't know exactly when my complex started, Doc... I think it was when I started a Poll on the homerecording.com site and only one person even voted beside myself... it was horrible... I had dreams about it for weeks... I just felt alone... like I had no friends and a small pee-pee... oh... I don't have any friends and a small pee-pee... figures..."
 
I use them alot on kick drums for metal recordings. But hey, that's what everybody seems to want nowadays.
Of course it would help if so many drummers I recorded weren't pussies and could kick the fucking pedal like a man and hit the snare like they meant it!
:p
 
metalhead28 said:
Of course it would help if so many drummers I recorded weren't pussies and could kick the fucking pedal like a man and hit the snare like they meant it!
:p

Amen to that!

I use them for two reasons, one because of the reason stated below for some cases, and two because close mics dont sound like drums. Its commen sense. Whens the last time you put your head 2 inches away from the snare to listen to it? That isn't what drums sound like. Of course combinations of overheads do help to fix this problem, but hey why not make the drum sound actually like what it should sound like, just close? Never use it to replace an exsisting bad drum, because no matter what that sound will be in the mix and the contrast between the good sound and the bad sound sounds unnatural.

Just my opinion.

Ben
 
You know, I agree with Metalhead28. The drummer has to be able to play with an attack that will help it come through on recordings. I love our drummer to pieces but I have to replace his BD often to get the sound that helps compliment the mix. And it sucks because I'm after a real organic sound.

But I always have a great OH mix or it never works.

And I also agree with emergencyexit: you have to make it sound good from where you're used to hearing the drum set.
 
metalhead28 said:
I use them alot on kick drums for metal recordings. But hey, that's what everybody seems to want nowadays.
Of course it would help if so many drummers I recorded weren't pussies and could kick the fucking pedal like a man and hit the snare like they meant it!
:p


Yeah, I heard a live drum solo by the guy from morbid angel and he did not have the chops that he had on the recordings. In other words, he's a poser IMO. He tried a blast beat and the bass drums were completely uneven although it was still fast as hell.
 
ibleedburgundy said:
Yeah, I heard a live drum solo by the guy from morbid angel and he did not have the chops that he had on the recordings. In other words, he's a poser IMO. He tried a blast beat and the bass drums were completely uneven although it was still fast as hell.

Ha, I would hate to hear about 90% of extreme metal drummers these days without their triggers. I got no problem with it, because the speed is insane....but you know what I mean! They are somewhat necessary for that stuff.
 
So...

What's the best technique for replacing recorded drum hits with samples?

I have tried to use Cakewalk's "Extract Timing" function with limited success. Fortunately it works best on the kick track, where it's most needed. But it's still fairly tedious and sometimes inaccurate. Any thoughts on that?

Alan
 
Metalhead28 is correct about Drumagog. It rules.

But, I also use a Roland VS-1880 with which to record, and the Drumagog doesn't equate to so quite a simple solution.

In those cases, I will run a short cable out to a drum brain, sometimes MIDI'd up to a sound module (my fav lately has been the Yamaha Motif ES), and then a line back into the recorder. I then record the "new" sound to its own track.

Now hold on. That was too easy. There's more to do here.

Running the signal out to the brain, going MIDI, then a line back to the recorder... it all means one thing: Distance=Time.

When doing a microscopic look at the Original Wav (say it was a bass drum)... you'll the sample is a few milliseconds behind. So you have to move the whole new sample track and line everything up. I actually use my Overheads to line up every drum track. I find it makes everything sound full.

You may have to play with your phase invert, too... if your recorder can do it.

Hope this helps!
C
www.thelogicmusic.com
www.chadaustin.com
 
Question: I like natural sounding drumsets, but my equipment isn't quite good enough to give me the high quality sounds I desire. Would replacing the drum sounds using drumagog or something similar give me higher quality natural drum sounds, or would they sound obviously sampled? I have no problem with sampling, but my experiments with it before have not sounded that natural. In the future when I've purchased some better equipment I hope to be able to avoid sampling, but right now I have some drum tracks that were tracked to the best of my ability, but my drums are still a little behind how the guitars and vocals sound in terms of quality. Is there no saving them? Or could sampling help?
 
Since posting my earlier response, I've downloaded and used the trial version of Drumagog.

Yes, it works! It does what the seller claims it will do--substitutes individual hits on individual tracks. By that I mean the kick track, the snare track, the tom track, etc.

The included kick sample I used for my evaluation seems very adequate, better than what I was able to record live in my studio. Blending the Drumagog sample with the recorded kick (using the internal Blend control) produced a very satisfactory result.

Even better, the Pro version can output MIDI notes, which gives you an editable track that'll play any sample you tell it to. I think that will be the way I use Drumagog. Of course, you can still blend the MIDI sample with the real drums in your DAW sequencer's mixer.

It's critical, I believe, to record a good stereo OH mic track in addition to the individual drum tracks. This is what you'll use to preserve the realistic spatial feel of the drum set while optimizing the sound and placement of the individual drums. It doesn't get processed by Drumagaog.

Alan
 
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