Tuning Drums For Recording Vs. Tuning Drums For Live Apps?

Robertt8

Robertt8

New member
I've heard that tuning drums for recording is typically tuning drums for live applications...is this true? what would the differences be?

Also, this might sound stupid, but there wouldn't be any kind of tuning device for drums like a guitar tuner or whatever would there?

I've done one recording so far with our drummer, and I had to EQ the living crap out of that set to make it sound okay. is that common? By the way, i'm using two overheads and a bass drum mic...
 
Robertt8 said:
I've heard that tuning drums for recording is typically tuning drums for live applications...is this true? what would the differences be? ...
Click to expand...
Some people tune the drums higher for live so they will cut through better. I tune pretty low for both live and studio

Robertt8 said:
Also, this might sound stupid, but there wouldn't be any kind of tuning device for drums like a guitar tuner or whatever would there?...
Click to expand...
Not really. There are devices that work on lug or head tension, but you need to know what is the optimal tension for that drum/head combination. (it will be different for the bottom head than it will be for the top) So you would need to know how to tune the drums in the first place to find out what the tension is supposed to be. A good rule of thumb is to tap on the shell, listen to the noteit makes and tune the heads to that note.


Robertt8 said:
I've done one recording so far with our drummer, and I had to EQ the living crap out of that set to make it sound okay. is that common? By the way, i'm using two overheads and a bass drum mic...
Click to expand...
You will have to do radical stuff if you don't like the sound of the drums in the room. I don't know what mics you used or what kind of sound you wanted, so it is hard to say what happened. But realize that most of the drums that live in your CD collection were mic'ed individually or resampled or both. Snare, toms, and cymbals all require different eq treatment, if you only have overheads to pick up all of that, you are fighting a loosing battle unless you are going for the sound you are getting.
 
Hey thanks for the reply! i'll pass those tips on to our drummer...

just a quick note though, i'm actually spending this week in Batavia, IL, as it's where i grew up...doing the Xmas thing back home, and saw you're in St. Charles! kooky! I'll tell you what, I'm freezing my nuts off up here! It was 65 when I left San Francisco to come to a mind numbing 8 degrees! Anyway, thanks for the ideas...
 
my wife got me a drum dial for christmas and so far it's really helped me iron out the few minor inconsistencies in my drum tuning (namely that obnoxious "ringing overtone" that seems to travel from lug to lug that i used to use moongel to eradicate). however, please don't misunderstand--you HAVE to know the basics concerning how to tune drums before you even attempt to use one of these things. otherwise you'll end up with a mess.

there are all manner of different opinions on how to tune drums. i usually finger-tap the shell with the heads off in order to get the "fundamental" pitch of the drum, and then tune both heads so that they're in tune with that fundamental and with each other. some folks tune one head higher/lower than the other--i get them both to match and that works for me and my drums. my tuning process is the same whether we're recording or gigging.


YMMV

cheers,
wade
 
Mrface,

How do you record to a note using the drum dial. I know two drummers that have a drum dial, but niether of them really know how to use it. Any help with that would be great.
 
As a general rule, drums may be tuned slightly higher for live applications to allow the drums to cut through a mix (project) whereas in the studio drums are often tuned lower to get the fundamental pitch and attack with less harmonics and projection.

A drum dial does not provide a specific tone - a drum dial simply measures relative tension - to assure that the drum has even tension at all lugs. The key to making any drum shell sound good is to make sure the drum is "in tune with itself" - meaning even tension.

A common, but time consuming method of studio tuning is indeed to tune to the key of the song. Candidly, I simply try to get the snare and kick in tune with a reference note, from a guitar of a keyboard (within the ideal tuning range of the drum - "in tune with iself") and then tune the toms to 3rds, 4ths or 5ths (whatever works best with a given tune).
 
So the drum dial does not tune to a certain note. I have read it is best when the drums are tuned to whatever the note is when you tap the shell. How do most people go about tuning to this note and how could I use the drum dial at the same time to make sure that the drums are even all around too?
 
One method of tuning is indeed to take all the hardware off the shell, suspend the shell with minimum contact (such as holding it between two fingers) and then hitting the shell to determine the root tone of the shell. Naturally, you need a melodic instrument handy to identify what that root tone is (unless you're blessed with perfect pitch).

You would then replace all the hardware and tune the head to that tone. The drum dial would then be used to assure even tension. One of the main advantages of even tension is to assure that the drum resonates to it's full capacity (uneven tension can "choke" the head).

Candidly, I tried this once and it was both waaaay to much work and in my mind fundamentally flawed. While you can try to tune each drum to it's root tone, this may not assure that all the drums (tuned to root tone) will sound good together. A drum set is one instrument, not a bunch of individual instruments.

After years and years of trying to master drum tuning (I'm still trying to master this secret art) I've come to the conclusion that all drums have an "ideal tuning range" (which is affected by choice of head, type of hoop, etc. etc.) If you stay within that range (and make sure you have even tension) you should normally have enough melodic range to tweak various drums to assure all the drums sound good together.

Even when tuning to specific pitch you can only get "close".
 
<A drum set is one instrument, not a bunch of individual instruments.>>

i totally disagree. IMO, a drumset is indeed a bunch of individual instruments that work as one whole (hence "set of drums"). it's analagous to a trumpet section. they all need to work together, otherwise, you've got a collection of individual slop. that's what makes recording drums so difficult--it's like recording a brass section or a choir, and everyone needs to be in tune and evenly balanced to start with--lest ye be sunk from the start.

i DO agree that while drums have a single "fundamental" pitch they sound best tuned to, they do have a range in which they "sound just fine" at. i've always tuned my drums a 3rd apart, so when you hit a couple toms at once, you get a musical chord, rather than a random cacophony of drum sounds. this takes a bit of an ear and it helps that i play guitar and keys. tuning drums a 3rd apart often means that they're not exactly at that fundamental pitch, but rather in "that range".

FWIW, DW has a service (or line of drums?) where they'll put together a set of drums that have been pre-selected to work together. i've always found this intriguing, but not worth the money to me (whereas it would be to someone who plays drums regularly).


no, a drum dial will NOT tune the drum for you and it will not take it to a specific pitch. it is IMPERATIVE that you know how to tune the drum correctly in the first place before even using a drum dial. all the drum dial will do is help you do is *fine-tune* the drum once you've already gotten it there--all the drum dial does is gives you a readout of the head tension (at all of the lugs or wherever you place it). this goes a LONG way towards eliminating those nasty overtones that people have always used duct tape, toilet paper, moongel, etc., to compensate for.

but in a nutshell, you have to learn to properly tune drums to begin with. and a well-tuned drumset will go miles towards improving your drum recordings.


cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112

Perhaps I was unclear when I referenced that drums are a single instrument.

My intention was to suggest that tuning each drum to a specific fundmental tone has no value if the drums do not sound good together.

While you use the comparison to a horn section - several instruments working together - I look at the drum set as an insturment. A perfect example is your reference to tuning in 3rds to create a "chord". Is that not much like tuning a multi-timbral "instrument" to be in tune with itself - rather than tuning several monotone instruments?
 
i think we're talking about the same thing here. :D

i look at a drumset as a collection of separate instruments simply from the fact that i can replace one drum with another, take one away, add more, etc., without fundamentally changing the fact that it's a drumset. you can't do that with a guitar (take away a string, etc)....but you can do that with a trumpet sexction (for example).

now, when recording the drums, i approach them as one "group of instruments", much like a brass section. if, in the mics, the first trumpets are dominating the 2nds and 3rds, then you either move the 1sts back, or you move the others forward, or you move the mics. drums are much the same to me--if the 10" tom or the 18" crash is overpowering the rest of the kit, then you take appropriate measures to address that.

so yes, i DO approach the drumset as a "whole"......but from that aspect, i also include the cymbals, cowbells, chimes and everything else that's part of the "drumset". but they're a whole that consists of individual parts that have to work together as a "team".


cheers,
wade
 
the number of tuning questions we get.
can we have a sticky thread to prof sounds drum bible? many questions would be anwserd instantly.
 
I have looked over the drum tuning bible and I was confused. It was too much to take in at once I think. Does anybody know of a little more simple thing that tells you about tuning drums just to get me started. I will probably go back to the drum tuning bible eventually, but for now it would be nice to find something that is simpiler for a non drummer noob like me. :)
 
<< it would be nice to find something that is simpiler for a non drummer noob like me>>

it would, but unfortunately there's nothing at all simple about tuning drums (well, at least until you get the hang of it). the drum tuning bible IS as simple a reference as you're going to find.

just get some heads, a tuning wrench, and a printed out copy of said "bible" and just start experimenting. start with the snare drum or one of the mounted toms.

of course, maybe you're just one of those folks for whom electronic drums are best suited..... :D


cheers,
wade
 
OK well I guess I will just go through the drum tuning bible. The problem is that I am not a drummer and don't have a kit I can practice on. I don't think I am one of those people who is best suited for electronic drums either. I just need to learn to tune drums. :)
 
well...it's kinda hard to get better at tuning drums without practicing it.......and it's hard to practice without drums. maybe find a used snare drum on the bulletin board at your local axe shop, or maybe a cheap used beginner set or something--seems people are constantly taking a bath on used drums.

sure would make life easier of someone could invent a chromatic tuner for drums. :b


wade
who would MUCH rather tune his guitar.....
 
I may be able to cajole my friend into letting me use his drums to practice tuning on considering he wants to record and his drums sound bad. He has a drum dial I can use too. Another question: When a drum set moves to another room is it important to tune the drums again? Obviously the drum sound will vary from room to room, but do the drums need to be retuned? Thanks a lot for all of the responses everybody!
 
the answer is "possibly". :D

it's pretty simple--drums need to be retuned (fine tuned, etc) whenever they sound out of tune. they're similar to a guitar. when you hit the drum and it gives you a sound other than that which you expect or are looking for, then the drum needs to be tuned.

drums are made of wood (albeit multiple thin plies), so you're going to get some of the regularly expected contraction/expansion when you move drums from hot to cold, etc. treat them like you would a guitar--let them warm up to room temperature, check the tuning and let 'er rip.

the best thing you can do for a "crappy sounding drumset" is give it all new heads and tune it well. it's amazing how people will change guitar strings before every gig, but will go years between changing drumheads. i don't advocate every gig with drums (that seems extreme to me), but certainly regular replacement sure helps ones tone. once you get an ear for it, you can hear when drumheads "die".....much like you can with guitar strings. they lose resonance and punch, they won't hold tune and they pick up nasty overtones.

you know how a guitar comes to life when you swap the nasty corroded strings for nice shiny new ones? the same happens with new heads on drums.


cheers,
wade
 
Ok thanks. I was also wondering how often you should replace the bottom heads? Oh and one other thing. I have heard that the bass drums with the huge holes in the front on the head are not very good for recording. I like a huge bass sound. Should I replace the head?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top