drummerboy_04AP
New member
I kind of struggle at playing swing, mainly with like snare comping and fills, any tips?
Tips for playing swing?
- Thread starter drummerboy_04AP
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Swing more than any music is a feel kind of thing. Listen to a lot of swing and be-bop and you'll start to hear/feel where drummers drop the snare accents. I'm sure you've already figured out that most of the snare hits are not on the "downbeat" but rather on the 1/8th note "up-beats" (accenting the "and" if you count 16th notes):
1-da-and-da-2-da-and-da-3-da-and-da-4-da-and-da
As a general rule of thumb - the kick plays all the 1/8th notes (lightly so the beat is implied more than heard) with occational hard hits to accent certain parts, such as cymbal crashes or to accent parts of horn lines (this is often called "dropping the bomb"). The hi-hat normally keeps time (often the quarter notes of 2 & 4 - which in most music is the standard "backbeat"). Then naturally the hand not playing the snare accents plays the swing (normally on the ride, but possibly on the hi-hat or if playing with brushes, on the snare - you do know how to stir the pot right
)
Like I said, listen to a lot of swing and/or be-bop. If you are a decent player and have an ear. you'll figure it out.
There are a lot of videos/DVDs that you could watch. One in particular by Ed Shaughnessy & Clem DeRosa (Time,Taste,Technique & Timbre) does a good job of showing and explaining how the drummer pushes the swing in a big band. Overall the video is rather boring - but the camera angles and the rather simplistic way they talk about playing swing is easy to follow.
1-da-and-da-2-da-and-da-3-da-and-da-4-da-and-da
As a general rule of thumb - the kick plays all the 1/8th notes (lightly so the beat is implied more than heard) with occational hard hits to accent certain parts, such as cymbal crashes or to accent parts of horn lines (this is often called "dropping the bomb"). The hi-hat normally keeps time (often the quarter notes of 2 & 4 - which in most music is the standard "backbeat"). Then naturally the hand not playing the snare accents plays the swing (normally on the ride, but possibly on the hi-hat or if playing with brushes, on the snare - you do know how to stir the pot right
)Like I said, listen to a lot of swing and/or be-bop. If you are a decent player and have an ear. you'll figure it out.
There are a lot of videos/DVDs that you could watch. One in particular by Ed Shaughnessy & Clem DeRosa (Time,Taste,Technique & Timbre) does a good job of showing and explaining how the drummer pushes the swing in a big band. Overall the video is rather boring - but the camera angles and the rather simplistic way they talk about playing swing is easy to follow.
eraos
Local Spiderman
Swing more than any music is a feel kind of thing. Listen to a lot of swing and be-bop and you'll start to hear/feel where drummers drop the snare accents. I'm sure you've already figured out that most of the snare hits are not on the "downbeat" but rather on the 1/8th note "up-beats" (accenting the "and" if you count 16th notes):
1-da-and-da-2-da-and-da-3-da-and-da-4-da-and-da
As a general rule of thumb - the kick plays all the 1/8th notes (lightly so the beat is implied more than heard) with occational hard hits to accent certain parts, such as cymbal crashes or to accent parts of horn lines (this is often called "dropping the bomb"). The hi-hat normally keeps time (often the quarter notes of 2 & 4 - which in most music is the standard "backbeat"). Then naturally the hand not playing the snare accents plays the swing (normally on the ride, but possibly on the hi-hat or if playing with brushes, on the snare - you do know how to stir the pot right
Like I said, listen to a lot of swing and/or be-bop. If you are a decent player and have an ear. you'll figure it out.
There are a lot of videos/DVDs that you could watch. One in particular by Ed Shaughnessy & Clem DeRosa (Time,Taste,Technique & Timbre) does a good job of showing and explaining how the drummer pushes the swing in a big band. Overall the video is rather boring - but the camera angles and the rather simplistic way they talk about playing swing is easy to follow.
How are you defining "swing?"
I've never heard swing described using an example of 16th note subdivisions with a kick on all of the eighths. Four on the floor maybe, but definitely not on the eighth notes. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying though.
JuliánFernández
2&4
All you need to know is here...
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Bop-Drumming-CD/dp/089898890X
(well, that book and countless hours of practicing, listening classic recording, attending to Jams...! )
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Bop-Drumming-CD/dp/089898890X
(well, that book and countless hours of practicing, listening classic recording, attending to Jams...!
)1. Get Steve Smith's "History of the US Beat" dvd, which breaks down the whole history of swing rhythms on the drumset, and how they evolved from the very first trap kits through big band, bop, R&B, rock, fusion, and beyond. Well-shot, too, with inset camera angles showing you his footwork when you need it.
2. Listen to LOTS of jazz. If you don't get it locked in your ears, you won't be able to do more than a pale imitation.
3. Practice along with great jazz records. Nothing beats it, except for a live band.
4. Don't get preoccupied with fills. If your ride groove isn't happening, no one will care what you do with the snare.
My brother-in-law told me a story he got from HIS college jazz drumming instructor. The guy was doing a big band show when he was in school, and intermission rolled around. His instructor said he had some suggestions on improvement... could he please see the student's snare drum? So the student handed it over. And then the instructor asked for a stick, and the student gave him that, waiting for the brilliant lesson on snare technique. Then the instructor asked for his kick pedal. The student, confused, gave it to him. At that point, the instructor told him to go play the rest of the set WITHOUT a snare, kick pedal, or second stick.
There's a lesson in swing for ya.
2. Listen to LOTS of jazz. If you don't get it locked in your ears, you won't be able to do more than a pale imitation.
3. Practice along with great jazz records. Nothing beats it, except for a live band.
4. Don't get preoccupied with fills. If your ride groove isn't happening, no one will care what you do with the snare.
My brother-in-law told me a story he got from HIS college jazz drumming instructor. The guy was doing a big band show when he was in school, and intermission rolled around. His instructor said he had some suggestions on improvement... could he please see the student's snare drum? So the student handed it over. And then the instructor asked for a stick, and the student gave him that, waiting for the brilliant lesson on snare technique. Then the instructor asked for his kick pedal. The student, confused, gave it to him. At that point, the instructor told him to go play the rest of the set WITHOUT a snare, kick pedal, or second stick.
There's a lesson in swing for ya.
Supercreep
Lizard People
Great thread.
dementedchord
Psychotic State alumni ch
the trick to playing swing beats is when you see 8ths they're played as triplets with the first 2 tied together...
BentRabbit
New member
First and foremost... Eat, think, drink, and breathe in TRIPLETS!!!!
1 & a 2 & a 3 & a 4 & a ... Or better yet: 1-trip-let 2-trip-let 3-trip-let 4-trip-let
Every part of your swing pulse is a variation of a triplet. When you comp on your snare, you're dropping in on the various triplet patterns.
As was mentioned, get Steve Smith's DVD and pick up a lot of pointers... One excercise he gives is practicing with a 4 over 3 polyrhythm: tap your left hand in quarter note triplets while tapping your right hand in regular quarter notes... After you get it, you'll see they automatically sound out the 'standard' dotted eigth swing feel (taaah-tut ta-taaah-tut), or as counted out: 1 -trip-let 2 -trip- let 3-trip-let 4 -trip- let 1....etc.
Another excercise I like to do that helps with your snare comping is to get your swing pattern going on your ride and then practice dropping the snare in on every one of the triplet beats... Start by playing only on 1 ... Then the next time hit the '&' (trip) of 1... Then just the 'a' (let) of 1... Do this for EVERY part of the count just playing your snare on that single beat... Then try mixing it up by doing the all the 'trip's... or just the 'let's with the 2's and 4's... Anything you can think of trying...
But remember...
THINK TRIPLETS!!!!
1 & a 2 & a 3 & a 4 & a ... Or better yet: 1-trip-let 2-trip-let 3-trip-let 4-trip-let
Every part of your swing pulse is a variation of a triplet. When you comp on your snare, you're dropping in on the various triplet patterns.
As was mentioned, get Steve Smith's DVD and pick up a lot of pointers... One excercise he gives is practicing with a 4 over 3 polyrhythm: tap your left hand in quarter note triplets while tapping your right hand in regular quarter notes... After you get it, you'll see they automatically sound out the 'standard' dotted eigth swing feel (taaah-tut ta-taaah-tut), or as counted out: 1 -trip-let 2 -trip- let 3-trip-let 4 -trip- let 1....etc.
Another excercise I like to do that helps with your snare comping is to get your swing pattern going on your ride and then practice dropping the snare in on every one of the triplet beats... Start by playing only on 1 ... Then the next time hit the '&' (trip) of 1... Then just the 'a' (let) of 1... Do this for EVERY part of the count just playing your snare on that single beat... Then try mixing it up by doing the all the 'trip's... or just the 'let's with the 2's and 4's... Anything you can think of trying...
But remember...
THINK TRIPLETS!!!!
leddy
Well-known member
Bingo. This is it. Meditate on this daily.
I strongly urge you to not play quarter notes in the bass drum. There may be an occaisonal time where it's called for, but it's rarely a good idea. Early swing drummers did it, but it's really not that hip, IMHO. Anyway, it will take some time before you'll be able to pull it off. Focus on the ride.
I agree with leedy that 1/4 notes on the kick is not the coolest way to swing - but it is the easiest way to get the 4 way coordination going while concentrating on the triplet patterns on the ride. I've played a lot of swing/be-bop and studied a lot of drummers and the 4 on the floor approach is very common (if perhaps too old school for some). Naturually you don't hear the 4 on the floor on recordings - because it is played very lightly.
Certainly syncopating the kick and snare with various accent notes etc. is much more interesting and dynamic than the subtle 4 on the floor - and almost a given in be-bop - but if drummerboy is still trying to figure out swing - the 4 on the floor approach may make the process less confusing to start.
Certainly syncopating the kick and snare with various accent notes etc. is much more interesting and dynamic than the subtle 4 on the floor - and almost a given in be-bop - but if drummerboy is still trying to figure out swing - the 4 on the floor approach may make the process less confusing to start.
RezN8
Blick-um, blick-um...
swingin'
Awesome posts so far. Especially thinking in triplets!
My two cents would be for you to totally focus on getting that swing ride pattern burned into muscle memory and really swinging. Then get the hihat swinging: in 2/4, play the hat with the foot on the 2 -- or in 4/4 play the hits on all four. Just for starters.
One of the tricks I use to get the swing going is to really get my foot "dancing" on the hihat. Don't make the hihat an afterthought. Really play to it as if it were the click or the band leader.
But you mentioned having the most trouble with the snare not swinging? I think in that case it's important to learn to really ghost the snare, I mean really feather it, so it sounds more implied than heard, and practice adding accents on the upbeats.
For faster playing another great thing to practice is the paradiddle-diddle, which is really an inverted six stroke roll:
RLRRLL RLRRLL RLRRLL RLRRLL
Once you get that pattern down on a practice pad or snare, move your right hand to the ride cymbal and add the swing. Play hihat with the foot on the first of each beat. Then it'll be easier to drop the left hand in and out and move around in the beat.
Hope this info helps. Rez
Awesome posts so far. Especially thinking in triplets!
My two cents would be for you to totally focus on getting that swing ride pattern burned into muscle memory and really swinging. Then get the hihat swinging: in 2/4, play the hat with the foot on the 2 -- or in 4/4 play the hits on all four. Just for starters.
One of the tricks I use to get the swing going is to really get my foot "dancing" on the hihat. Don't make the hihat an afterthought. Really play to it as if it were the click or the band leader.
But you mentioned having the most trouble with the snare not swinging? I think in that case it's important to learn to really ghost the snare, I mean really feather it, so it sounds more implied than heard, and practice adding accents on the upbeats.
For faster playing another great thing to practice is the paradiddle-diddle, which is really an inverted six stroke roll:
RLRRLL RLRRLL RLRRLL RLRRLL
Once you get that pattern down on a practice pad or snare, move your right hand to the ride cymbal and add the swing. Play hihat with the foot on the first of each beat. Then it'll be easier to drop the left hand in and out and move around in the beat.
Hope this info helps. Rez
drummerboy_04AP
New member
Thanks a lot everyone! Ill definately try these things.