I'm recording my band in my basement and we have a pretty good set up. My question is should we insert a compressor on the kick drum when mixing down to stereo? My partner in this project insists on it and I just don't like how it sounds. My buddy does alot of live sound in the clubs here in town and always compresses the kick in a live situation. I like to feel it and not have to struggle to hear it in the mix. When he compresses it, I can no longer hear it and it tends to take alot of drive from the songs. He tells me when I turn up the final mix loud, the uncompressed kick will overwhelm the overall mix. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
post compression on kick drum??
- Thread starter McTossa
- Start date
Tapehead
Member
Trust your ears! If you buddy says it will get lost in the mix when turned up loud, turn it up loud and see if he's right. Gotta admit, that's a new one to me. Why would it get lost only when everything gets loud? They all go up together when you turn up the big knob on yer amp...
Andy Franco
New member
i have never compressed the bass drum before....i agree i love to feel the bass....ok it might be ok to compress it in a live situation but recording...i dont thin so.....i'd say no....but thats up to how it sounds to your ears..... 
Andy
Andy
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by McTossa:
I'm recording my band in my basement and we have a pretty good set up. My question is should we insert a compressor on the kick drum when mixing down to stereo? My partner in this project insists on it and I just don't like how it sounds. My buddy does alot of live sound in the clubs here in town and always compresses the kick in a live situation. I like to feel it and not have to struggle to hear it in the mix. When he compresses it, I can no longer hear it and it tends to take alot of drive from the songs. He tells me when I turn up the final mix loud, the uncompressed kick will overwhelm the overall mix. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm recording my band in my basement and we have a pretty good set up. My question is should we insert a compressor on the kick drum when mixing down to stereo? My partner in this project insists on it and I just don't like how it sounds. My buddy does alot of live sound in the clubs here in town and always compresses the kick in a live situation. I like to feel it and not have to struggle to hear it in the mix. When he compresses it, I can no longer hear it and it tends to take alot of drive from the songs. He tells me when I turn up the final mix loud, the uncompressed kick will overwhelm the overall mix. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You definitely don't have to compress the kick in a mix. I usually will compress it if I want it to have more attack. To do this, try a long attack time and the fastest release time possible. I'm not sure why this works, but it does. If you have the attack time set too short, it will take all the "meat" out of the sound, which may be what you've been experiencing. Or, perhaps you just need to bring the output level of the compressor up. One thing you could try is multing the kick drum to another channel on your board, and then compressing that channel. This way, you keep the dynamics of your original sound, and you can bring up the compressed kick to add some punch
sonusman
Banned
As to the question about why a low frequency signal would become louder as you turn the volume up, you need to study the Fletcher/Munson Relative Loudness Curve.
It is true that low frequencies will sound "relatively" louder as you turn up the overall volume. You may not notice this much of some consumer playback systems because many of them have the Loudness button engaged, and this button usually has a sensor on the output of the preamp that will in effect turn up the bass at low volumes, but turn it down at higher volumes. Neat huh?
As to settings on a compressor for percussive instruments....
Setting a long attack time totally defeats the purpose of the compression. You actually want the shortest attack time possible so that transient signals will not distort the next volume stage.
Often, a compressor is used on a kick drum AFTER AN EQUALIZER. Compressing before equalization usually doesn't have very good effect on the kick. Too had to explain.
Try this.
Boost your low shelf filter about 3-6 db. Hopefully you have at least a Quazi Parametric mid EQ, so you can cut at least 6 db of around 200-250 Hz. Boost your high shelf EQ at least 2 db, or up to 6-10 db if you want a more clicky sound. Another mid band EQ would be better so that you can boost somewhere between 3-5KHz (the range that the beater sound is usually in). Then send this to the compressor.
Set the compressor for at least 10:1 compression, shortest attack and release possible, and the threshold so that you are compressing a minimum of 4 db or so. Set like this, the compressor is working more like a limiter would, but limiters usually have a faster attack time then is available on most compressors. So you still get a little attack coming through to the output.
The idea is to compress to the point where the low frequencies will seem to fill out because the compression is making you turn up the overall volume of the kick drum. But you are removing the part of the kick drum that will work against the fundamental notes of a bass guitar (160-300 Hz) buy turning down that frequency. You are also adding some definition with the high shelf, or high mids for clarity.
You now have a fairly standard kick sound used on many pop recordings. Of course, this all depends upon the fact that the kick was recorded with a good balance of low and high end.
I prefer a EV RE 27n/d, or at least a EV RE 20 for kick. A AKG D 112 is sort of okay, but sounds a little milky to me. A Sennheiser 421 will work reasonably well if you are looking for more high end on the track, but it will lack resonance.
If you are looking into cheap mics, the AT Pro 25 is a reasonalbe sounding kick drum mic. I actually like it's sound better than the D 112.
No matter what, at low volumes, you will want the kick to at least be "heard" a little. When you turn up the whole mix, you will start to feel it. The kick should definately be prominent in the mix, but not taking up so much headroom that you cannot get your overall mix volume up pretty high. I have found that the if the kick is about 2 or 3 db lower than the average vocal volume, you are in the ball park. This can of course change from song to song, and between genres of music. In fact, a lot of this stuff can be a little different depending upon several factors. It is really just a good idea to know what a compressor and eq does, and to have a goal in mind by using it.
Good luck, and you are all welcome for the very scarse post where I actually tell people how I "generally" set eq's and compressors....
Ed Rei
Echo Star Studio www.echostarstudio.com
It is true that low frequencies will sound "relatively" louder as you turn up the overall volume. You may not notice this much of some consumer playback systems because many of them have the Loudness button engaged, and this button usually has a sensor on the output of the preamp that will in effect turn up the bass at low volumes, but turn it down at higher volumes. Neat huh?
As to settings on a compressor for percussive instruments....
Setting a long attack time totally defeats the purpose of the compression. You actually want the shortest attack time possible so that transient signals will not distort the next volume stage.
Often, a compressor is used on a kick drum AFTER AN EQUALIZER. Compressing before equalization usually doesn't have very good effect on the kick. Too had to explain.
Try this.
Boost your low shelf filter about 3-6 db. Hopefully you have at least a Quazi Parametric mid EQ, so you can cut at least 6 db of around 200-250 Hz. Boost your high shelf EQ at least 2 db, or up to 6-10 db if you want a more clicky sound. Another mid band EQ would be better so that you can boost somewhere between 3-5KHz (the range that the beater sound is usually in). Then send this to the compressor.
Set the compressor for at least 10:1 compression, shortest attack and release possible, and the threshold so that you are compressing a minimum of 4 db or so. Set like this, the compressor is working more like a limiter would, but limiters usually have a faster attack time then is available on most compressors. So you still get a little attack coming through to the output.
The idea is to compress to the point where the low frequencies will seem to fill out because the compression is making you turn up the overall volume of the kick drum. But you are removing the part of the kick drum that will work against the fundamental notes of a bass guitar (160-300 Hz) buy turning down that frequency. You are also adding some definition with the high shelf, or high mids for clarity.
You now have a fairly standard kick sound used on many pop recordings. Of course, this all depends upon the fact that the kick was recorded with a good balance of low and high end.
I prefer a EV RE 27n/d, or at least a EV RE 20 for kick. A AKG D 112 is sort of okay, but sounds a little milky to me. A Sennheiser 421 will work reasonably well if you are looking for more high end on the track, but it will lack resonance.
If you are looking into cheap mics, the AT Pro 25 is a reasonalbe sounding kick drum mic. I actually like it's sound better than the D 112.
No matter what, at low volumes, you will want the kick to at least be "heard" a little. When you turn up the whole mix, you will start to feel it. The kick should definately be prominent in the mix, but not taking up so much headroom that you cannot get your overall mix volume up pretty high. I have found that the if the kick is about 2 or 3 db lower than the average vocal volume, you are in the ball park. This can of course change from song to song, and between genres of music. In fact, a lot of this stuff can be a little different depending upon several factors. It is really just a good idea to know what a compressor and eq does, and to have a goal in mind by using it.
Good luck, and you are all welcome for the very scarse post where I actually tell people how I "generally" set eq's and compressors....
Ed Rei
Echo Star Studio www.echostarstudio.com