Ongoing Drum Help

Second test sounds decent. I'd suggest tuning the floor tom down a little more, and taking the pillow out the kick drum. If you need something in it, use a towel or small cushion. And play kick lifting your full foot.

I'd aim the snare mic at the centre of the snare and make sure you hit dead centre all the time. I don't hate the sound of the snare, but occasionally you hit off centre and it gets dead ringy.

The snare and toms should be levelled out a lot more. Pull the tom arm out the kick drum some more and get them completely flat, then get any angle you need with the arm instead of tilting the tom, if you know what i mean? Then bring the 13" tom down so the bottom is an inch from the kick drum, and the 12" down 'til the top is level with it. Then flatten out the snare, or only slight angle, and bring it up closer to the toms if needed. Same with floor tom.

I don't hear too much phase issues, and i think other instruments will mask it. You shouldn't get any with recorderman though, so might be the room like suggested. Try moving the kit around. In fact, walk around the room hitting your snare until you find a spot you like the sound at.

Once tracking is sorted, you gotta tackle mixing. And I'd suggest some new cymbals. The crashes i use, 14" and 15" Stagg DH, are £20.99 and £23.99 and you can find stands pretty cheap.
 
Here's my most recent recording. It's my studio sized Pearl Export, with shitty heads(since been replaced) apart from Evans EMAD, my Stagg DH cymbals(hats, ride, 2 crashes, china and splash) recorded in my 9'x5' room with 4 gobos and 2 clouds, with MSH2s on OHs, t.bone SC300(£21.17) on snare and t.bone BD300(£38.43) on kick at batter side(no room at reso side). I've done nothing to it other than add slight reverb and basic mixing.

The guitars were recorded first (slightly out of time occasionally) to a click, and drums after, also to a click. Wouldn't usually do it like this, but its not an important recording.
 
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Greg_L said:
No offense pandamonk, but those cymbals sound awful. Maybe it's the glassy reverb you have on the kit. :confused:
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Seriously? I love them. Maybe it is the reverb.

I'm not hugely keen on my hats and ride but love my crashes and china. I've compared them to pretty decent cymbals, and prefer them to some(definitely not all). They are great for the price though.

What is it you don't like about them? They're quite high pitched cymbals and cut through quite well with quick delay, which i like. They're best heard at the end of this song. Compared with some samples for much dearer brands(of the same size) I tend to prefer mine. My sizes are 14" and 15".

Cymbals are hugely subjectional though.
 
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pandamonk said:
Seriously? I love them. Maybe it is the reverb.

I'm not hugely keen on my hats and ride but love my crashes and china. I've compared them to pretty decent cymbals, and prefer them to some(definitely not all). They are great for the price though.

What is it you don't like about them? They're quite high pitched cymbals and cut through quite well with quick delay, which i like. They're best heard at the end of this song. Compared with some samples for much dearer brands(of the same size) I tend to prefer mine. My sizes are 14" and 15".
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They just sound harsh and shrilly to me. There's no complexity to the crash sound. It's just a high pitched CRASH. Like trash can lids banging together. Being 14 and 15 inches doesn't help. Those are hi-hat sizes. I heard no real ping or body with the ride cymbal. They almost sound like drum machine cymbals. I hate any and all china cymbals, so these comments don't apply to yours. The reverb definitely does not help either. I'm no cymbal expert by any means. That's just what I hear. Just my 2 cents. If you like em, rock on. :)
 
Greg_L said:
They just sound harsh and shrilly to me.
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i've got to agree with this. it may be the "stagg" portion that is the problem. my association of that name is something that a pawn shop would sell, kind of like a johnson guitar. not that name is everything but it can account for a lot. go play a zildjian A Custom cymbal set and you will see the difference.

ah....sorry, i didn't mean for that to turn into a "you need to get this ____" rant.

the rest of the drums sound nice
 
Greg_L said:
They just sound harsh and shrilly to me. There's no complexity to the crash sound. It's just a high pitched CRASH. Like trash can lids banging together. Being 14 and 15 inches doesn't help. Those are hi-hat sizes. I heard no real ping or body with the ride cymbal. They almost sound like drum machine cymbals. I hate any and all china cymbals, so these comments don't apply to yours. The reverb definitely does not help either. I'm no cymbal expert by any means. That's just what I hear. Just my 2 cents. If you like em, rock on. :)
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There is a lot of crash but there is some complexity, although it doesn't really come across on that recording.

My hats are only 12" and i don't like them(tried to save money on those and the ride. Big mistake). I agree with you about the ride. I don't like it either, It's really a 19" crash/ride tbh. It was £70 for 19" crash/ride, or £90-120 for Stagg DH 20" rides and £50 for 12" hats, or £70-90 for 14"s. I bought a full set(hats, ride, 2 crash, splash and china) of Stagg DHs and was skint at the time, so had to save money somewhere unfortunately, and stupidly bought those.
 
second skin said:
i've got to agree with this. it may be the "stagg" portion that is the problem. my association of that name is something that a pawn shop would sell, kind of like a johnson guitar. not that name is everything but it can account for a lot.

the rest of the drums sound nice
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Well the lower end stagg (regular, SH, etc) i'd have to agree with, but i do like the DHs, and haven't tried the other high ones.

The rest of the drums aren't great. I like kick and snare(altho ive changed the snare head now) but the toms were just horrible(they've been changed too and sound much better).
 
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pandamonk said:
There is a lot of crash but there is some complexity, although it doesn't really come across on that recording.

My hats are only 12" and i don't like them(tried to save money on those and the ride. Big mistake). I agree with you about the ride. I don't like it either, It's really a 19" crash/ride tbh. It was £70 for 19" crash/ride, or £90-120 for Stagg DH 20" rides and £50 for 12" hats, or £70-90 for 14"s. I bought a full set(hats, ride, 2 crash, splash and china) of Stagg DHs and was skint at the time, so had to save money somewhere unfortunately, and stupidly bought those.
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I've used cheap or low-end cymbals all my life. I upgraded to some really good ones and the difference is astounding. Save some money and start shopping around. Buy one at a time. If you play drums seriously you won't regret it.
 
ok, i heard the 2nd take and it's far improved--panning, phase, AND tone. you're making positive progress, and that's an achievement in itself.

the kick and cymbals are still seriously lacking, and that's already been addressed. you know what to do.

i will say, though, that the terrible hi-hat (among other things) is much improved simply by your better balance of the kit via recorderman.

as usual, i pretty much agree with greg on everything.

keep at it--you're progressing much more quickly than i did.
 
Thanks guys. I do have a few more questions.

Firstly, what's 'Crash/Ride'? And how's it different from a Crash?

Second could reflection be causing phase issues?
 
Greg_L said:
I've used cheap or low-end cymbals all my life. I upgraded to some really good ones and the difference is astounding. Save some money and start shopping around. Buy one at a time. If you play drums seriously you won't regret it.
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Ohh i know this. I've had loads of cheap sets. I was working my way up to more expensive sets from my ZBTs, when i saw a drummer with an expensive set use a Stagg DH, and it really cut through. I bought one to try it out and loved it.

I've tried loads of cymbals all over the place, gigging, in studio, in shops, etc and the Stagg DHs really stood out for me. So I sold my ZBTs and bought all Staggs. I've compared them with much dearer cymbals, and they usually come out on top, imo. The only downfall is the hats which aren't terrible, and the ride which is, but like it said, that's where i tried to save money when i shouldn't have.

I might save up and get better hats and ride and use these as secondary or sell them on. I'm keeping my crashes, china and splash(I'm not keen on any splashes tbh) though.
 
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TelePaul said:
Thanks guys. I do have a few more questions.

Firstly, what's 'Crash/Ride'? And how's it different from a Crash?

Second could reflection be causing phase issues?
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"The Crash/Ride Cymbal
Some cymbals are designated crash/ride or more rarely ride/crash to indicate that they are designed to serve either function, and perhaps which function is more likely. Such a cymbal will typically serve as both a large slow crash and a secondary ride, or it may be reserved for one purpose or the other in a particular playing situation."

In my experience they aren't very good though, unless used in a large setup where it can be a secondary ride and/or extra crash. You'd probably be better with a crash and a ride.

And yes, the acoustic could be causing them. I don't hear much since you changed the setup though, but try a different position in the room. You never know, you might find an area that just loves your drums.
 
RAMI said:
Yeah, me too. It's the only reason I''m not posting. Greg's got a hold of this one pretty good.:cool:
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Lol. I don't mean to be a thread hog. My little girl had to have some surgery on her leg and she can't go to back school yet, so I've got lots of time to fuck around on the interwebs. :D
 
pandamonk said:
In my experience they aren't very good though, unless used in a large setup where it can be a secondary ride and/or extra crash. You'd probably be better with a crash and a ride.

.
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I mostly agree. A crash/ride is more a luxury than a cymbal necessity. They're generally pretty loud and trashy. I have a 20" Paiste RUDE crash/ride and that thing is a beast. I typically play faster/more aggressive stuff and even then I have to use a light touch with it. I love it though. I never play the bell on it, but I ride it a lot and it gives a powerful "whoosh" sound.
 
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