Maybe I posted in the wrong forum...a dry drum sample

Seeker of Rock

Seeker of Rock

The One and Only
I hate to double post, but I'm gonna. Several hours later, mind you. I was really looking for a "micing technique" forum here, but no luck so here is what I'm looking for opinions on. http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=6500733&q=hi

Now this is dry as dry can get, and in the spirit of not polishing a turd, I'm looking for some advice to improve the initial product. Thoughts or opinions(and no, not on the playing, just recording/micing)?
 
I think it sounds pretty decent Seeker...nothing sticks out as not being captured....
 
Very nice stereo image. Although, I like the O/H's panned from the drummers perspective. That's just me though. Either way is fine. Is there any compression on this? The ride sounds kinda funny. That snare sounds kind of fat too. Maybe you have some reflection going on in your room? It doesn't sound out of phase though, so your O/H's are in good placement. Maybe it's a tuning thing. Get some quickie music around it and see how these drums sound in a mix.
 
Agreed. You've got a good image of the kit. Putting some tunes around it is a good idea. See how it sits with the rest of the frequencies in a mix. All in all, not bad.
 
Don´t wanna to sound harsh, but it doesn´t sound good to me...

I can´t imagine how you want me to forget about performance when your asking advice on the recording of an ACOUSTIC instrument... It´s just not possible.

From the clip I can tell two things: First the cymbals are cheap ones (especially one crash), and the other one is that the drummer doesn´t know how to hit the drums...
It´s not gonna sound good unless you change your drummer... I´m sorry that you don´t to hear this, but it´s how it works...

Do you think that you can mic a Stradivarius and make it sound good? Well, no; unless you have a fine musician with good technique.

Drums it´s no exception. Not-so-good drummer=not-so-good sound.

Try the same experiment with a sessioned drummer and come back to show us the difference...

(For example, that snare is not gonna cut it through a mix... You can turn the world upside down and still won´t cut it... Sorry man, nice effort but the concept is missing)

HTH :)
 
For me, I can forgive the playing and cost of the gear. What I look for in a drum recording is the detail. If it's a cheap cymbal, then I want to be able to hear every nuance of the cheapness. If the fills are weird, I want to be able to hear the sticks hitting the rims on the mis-hits.

This is OK. The performance isn't really all that bad. I am really hearing a lot of the room. The cymbals have the detail. I could probably tell you the size and make of the crash in a few guesses. The toms seem a little distant, as well as the kick, and that is chiefly being caused by the room reflections. You say the recording is dry, but to me it sounds wet because of the natural reverberations in the room, albeit short reverb.

I would treat the room a bit and absorb some of the reflections. See how it sounds after that. It will give you more options if you decide to treat the track later with some effects.
 
Some good comments, some not-so-constructive from Julian, but you guys in general are giving me what I'm looking for. The room is a room-within-a-room construction, treated with Realtraps in the corners and Auralex Metro up the walls 2'oc. When I was building it, Fitz suggested I leave the floor as concrete to retain a "live" sound, and I think that is what I am getting. I don't plan on treating additional, except maybe an area rug beneath the kit. With the "wet" sound of the room, I probably won't use much reverb on the drums in the mix. Good comment about the toms and especially the kick. I'm micing the kick with an ATM25, but think had the "low cut" activated on the channel. Probably shouldn't have done that. Cymbals are Avedis Zildjian crash, 1960s A. Zildjian thin hats, and ZBT crash and ride. Mics are MSH-1o for overheads, ATM25 on kick and SM58 on snare. I thought I would try the four mic setup first, but I may end up micing the toms. Ever so slight compression on the snare and kick going into the HD24, but the overheads are straight to the boards pres.

Thanks for the listen and advice!
 
Sorry Seeker... but, I suggest you to try to make that take to fit in a mix...
Rent all the outboard gear you want, and you still won´t be able to make it...

Let me put it this way: No one would ever dare to pick up a cello (without proper technique), play a few (out-of-tune) notes and try to make it sound good with mic placment, eq, fx, etc...
Now, drums seems to be different; right? Everyone can hit a drum... Well, no!
It´s the same story... If the instrument sounds bad in the room, I will be sound bad on tape... Try to see a good drummer laying tracks in a studio, and then compare the raw sound of his snare with yours... It´s not about having a 60s Ludwig COB, is about HITTING IT RIGHT!

But, what do I know? :o
Maybe you can keep recording like that and fit those takes into a great album...

Anyway, good luck with your future recordings...
 
JuliánFernández said:
Sorry Seeker... but, I suggest you to try to make that take to fit in a mix...
Rent all the outboard gear you want, and you still won´t be able to make it...

Let me put it this way: No one would ever dare to pick up a cello (without proper technique), play a few (out-of-tune) notes and try to make it sound good with mic placment, eq, fx, etc...
Now, drums seems to be different; right? Everyone can hit a drum... Well, no!
It´s the same story... If the instrument sounds bad in the room, I will be sound bad on tape... Try to see a good drummer laying tracks in a studio, and then compare the raw sound of his snare with yours... It´s not about having a 60s Ludwig COB, is about HITTING IT RIGHT!

But, what do I know? :o
Maybe you can keep recording like that and fit those takes into a great album...

Anyway, good luck with your future recordings...
Click to expand...

Let's hear your drums.
 
Greg_L said:
Let's hear your drums.
Click to expand...

I second that. Not saying mine are phenomonal, but you seem to be talkin' quite a bit of smack here. Let the guy record how he can, not everybody spends their lives and all of their money into building a professional studio; some people simply like it for a hobby. If hobbying is his thing and he's just trying to learn some more, let the guy learn with some actually CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

:)
 
Greg_L said:
Let's hear your drums.
Click to expand...

Not a problem...

Just record this clip for you to listen... Crappy set (really cheap-china made), just 3 mics and some random compression and reverb...

Many of you are gonna say that you prefer Seeker´s clip, but if that´s the case, I have nothing more to say.

Let me know what do you think:

http://www.boomp3.com/listen/eo9rwfn/hrbbs


EDIT: Carny1122, why do you think I´m not giving him CONSTRUCTIVE criticism?!?! Just because I advice him to record a better musician?! Btw, you´re missing the point talking about spending money on equipment... I never talked about that in this thread...
 
JuliánFernández;2921774 said:
Many of you are gonna say that you prefer Seeker´s clip, but if that´s the case, I have nothing more to say.
Click to expand...
So anyone that doesn't think your recording is better is wrong? Is that what you're saying? :rolleyes:

Your clip sounds no better overall, but since you have nothing more to say, I won't get into why. Lol.
 
Greg_L said:
So anyone that doesn't think your recording is better is wrong? Is that what you're saying? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You know that´s not what I meant... If you´re trying to make this into some kind of him-versus-my thing is not gonna work...

I can share my humble opinion about how drums are supposed to be played (and yes, they´re supposed to sound one way)...

I´m not claiming that I´m a great drummer or a great homerecordist... But I recorded in high end studios and I can share my opinions based on real life experience.

I bet if Seeker tries the same setup with another drummer, he´ll be amazed on the difference...

BTW, Let´s ask a producer which clip of both he prefers to include in a song...

I don´t want to sound cocky, so I won´t say no more... Anyway, Greg if there´s something you would like to say about my clip that I could improve, it would be nice to hear it...
 
JuliánFernández said:
You know that´s not what I meant... If you´re trying to make this into some kind of him-versus-my thing is not gonna work...

I can share my humble opinion about how drums are supposed to be played (and yes, they´re supposed to sound one way)...

I´m not claiming that I´m a great drummer or a great homerecordist... But I recorded in high end studios and I can share my opinions based on real life experience.

I bet if Seeker tries the same setup with another drummer, he´ll be amazed on the difference...

BTW, Let´s ask a producer which clip of both he prefers to include in a song...

I don´t want to sound cocky, so I won´t say no more... Anyway, Greg if there´s something you would like to say about my clip that I could improve, it would be nice to hear it...
Click to expand...

Your snare sounds choked. Sure, it's cleaner sounding than Seeker's, but it's like the opposite end of the spectrum. His is too dark and fat, yours is like a tightly tuned tom. I personally like snares to fall somewhere inbetween the two. Speaking of toms, do you have any? It's kind of hard to gauge your stereo image when you don't go around the kit.

I STRONGLY disagree that drums are "supposed to sound one way". That's maybe one of the silliest statements I've ever heard. Listen to 100 CD's and you'll hear 100 different kick/tom/snare sounds. It's all personal taste.
 
I kind of agree with you on the snare, but I wasn´t trying to make my drums to sound awesome... I just wanted to share with the forum my expirience on how the guy playing the instrument makes the WHOLE difference...
I have one year old clips of the same kit in the same room mic´ed with the same mic and sounding a lot worse... Why? Because 1 year later I´m a better drummer.

The stereo image was not a concern when I recorded that take...

Drums are supposed to sound one way: that´s true. They supposed to sound GOOD. It´s not about getting signature drums or a rack full or API.
It´s not about personal taste, is about making it sound good.
I don´t know if you´re a drummer too, but ask any session man o seasoned drummer and will tell you the same thing. The way drums are supposed to sound has nothing to do with your personal taste; that´s another story.

Don´t wanna open a can of worms... Let´s back to the or¡ginal post which seems to be more interesting...

btw, which clip do you think a producer would choose?
 
JuliánFernández;2921801 said:
I kind of agree with you on the snare, but I wasn´t trying to make my drums to sound awesome... I just wanted to share with the forum my expirience on how the guy playing the instrument makes the WHOLE difference...
I have one year old clips of the same kit in the same room mic´ed with the same mic and sounding a lot worse... Why? Because 1 year later I´m a better drummer.

The stereo image was not a concern when I recorded that take...

Drums are supposed to sound one way: that´s true. They supposed to sound GOOD. It´s not about getting signature drums or a rack full or API.
It´s not about personal taste, is about making it sound good.
I don´t know if you´re a drummer too, but ask any session man o seasoned drummer and will tell you the same thing. The way drums are supposed to sound has nothing to do with your personal taste; that´s another story.

Don´t wanna open a can of worms... Let´s back to the or¡ginal post which seems to be more interesting...

btw, which clip do you think a producer would choose?
Click to expand...

I'm not a drummer, so I'm gonna have to bow out now. I've never played drums in my life.

You couldn't be more wrong though about personal tastes.
 
JuliánFernández;2921801 said:
btw, which clip do you think a producer would choose?
Click to expand...

You're really sounding full of yourself--your question is rhetorical, and it's obvious you think your clip would be chosen.

Dude--get over yourself. It's not that good. It's not bad, but it's not that good. I'm not a drummer but this is a recording forum, and though I don't play 'em, I record better drums than that. (Or at least I think I do--you'd listen to mine and still like yours; there's the subjectivity.)
 
I won´t say no more because it´s seems that I´m not being able to be clear about what´s my point... (WhiteS, you´re comments are miles away of what I tried to say).

To everyone, good luck with your recordings. :D
 
Seeker:

You're on the right road... I agree the snare sounds a bit washy but you should be able to tighten that up with some compression... The toms aren't as pronounced as the cymbals but for a 4 mic setup, it's pretty clean :)

Julian:

Sorry man, yours sounds like it came right from a Casio keyboard... :confused:
Your point (if I read you correctly) about putting a seasoned player on the drums will yield better results is true... If Seeker's drummer pulled back on the cymbals and laid into the toms then his 4 mic setup would be closer to what he's looking for I'm thinking... But, you should still be able to critique his recording.

And for what it's worth, I've recorded my beginning drum students playing on my kit and can get a pretty killer sounding mix from them.... So I really can't buy into the whole 'Stradivarius/Fine musician/technique' theory... Granted it will be better when I play and definitely better if Steve Smith came in and played 'em, but you get my point... You can/should be able to listen to what Seeker offered and give him technical advice and not relative advice.

GregL:

How do you get that midi Sabian B8 crash sounding so lifelike??

You are indeed my hero

:p
 
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