Learning drums

Pinky

Pinky

and The Brain...
Okay, I have to stop kidding myself. I LOVE the drums.

I've been a guitarist and bassist since around 18 (now 29). I kinda fell into guitar outta convenience, and have become good enough to play most anything I can think of.

BUT, my passion has always been drums. It's no coincidence I'm an excellent rhythm player and have a knack/gift for 'getting' complicated time signatures.

I'm wathcing this Steve Smith video (awesome drummer) doing a sort of drum clinic thing and I understood EXACTLY what and how he was doing it. Not that I could duplicate the playing, but it brought me back to when I have goofed around in the studio I suprise people with being able to sit at a kit and actually PLAY the thing.

Need some guidance. I'm gonna get a kit and rent a space if I have to (no way I could have a kit in my apartment). Money won't be too much of an issue. But I really need stop toying around and move to the instrument of my heart.

Any pearls of wisdom? Gear recommendations are welcome. Looking at $1,000 to start, which should build a decent set (especially if I find one used).

I'm a huge Neil Peart fan already, can even play a few of his licks on air drums! :p Other suggested drummers? I have also enjoyed Mike Portnoy and Danny Carey's drumming over the past 10 years.

I have the musiciansfriend catalog in front of me - I've played Tama sets and for the money I think this may be my best beginner's option.


[BTW, this is a duplicate post from the Dragon cave, but no one responded and it was suggested I repost here - sorry for double posting! :) ]
 
Getting a teacher who can teach some proper technique and rudimental patterns can be helpful (it's easy to learn bad technique when self taught and very hard to unlearn later).

Playing to recordings is a tried and tue method that has worked for many decades. Some of the training videos are very good (some are no more than a name drummer showing off his chops). Dave Weckl has a good series. Jeff Pocaro had a good video on shuffle beats.

Regarding suggested drummers - there are waaay too many but it is important to know how to groove (since you indicate your a good rhythem player - you must already know this)- certainly Peart & Portney are fine drummers, but I'm sure they learned how to groove before they advanced to the level they are at. Steve Gadd plays the pocket better than almost anyone. Zoro has some videos that focus on groove from 60's R&B through
70's funk right up to 90's hip-hop.

It sound like you already have some chops, perhaps you can find some drummers and ask for some advice (I try to learn chops from every musician I play with).

Regarding gear, Tama are good drums, Mapex make some affordable and decent drums (such as the Pro M). I think Yamaha makes some quality kits. Whatever you do, make wise choices on cymbals - drum sound can be improved with better heads, proper tuning etc. but a cymbal sound is what it is. I'd suggest Zildjian A's or better or Sabian AA's of better or Paiste Signature or better
 
Please please please.... If you're passionate about drums try to get the drumset you will want in ten years. You don't want to buy twice or three times. If you can afford it, get a top shelf kit and cymbals. Start small with the cymbals - hardware is ridiculously expensive for the good stuff, but it will last forever. 3-5k should get you a pretty nice kit you'll be proud of down the road.
 
Both Mapex and Tama make a solid line of Drums. My friend has a Mapex double kit and it sounds amaizing. Keep watching those videos cause those will help a lot. Listen to a wide variety of music, that'll help you develop a vast drum style and increase creativity. Plus if you want to join a band everybody is always looking for a drummer. all the drummers you've listed are great drummers. Check out John Bonham if you havent already, he's got near impossible stuff to play. I have even heard that Portnoy tried playing his solos and had trouble with them. anyway good luck
 
Thorguitarist said:
Plus if you want to join a band everybody is always looking for a drummer.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the Bonham suggestion. Zeppelin was one of my first influences and certainly worthy (occassionally I'll bust out their boxed set).

Steve Gadd was the next drummer in the drum collective video I was watching that finally inspired this move. He has a 'drunken' style, kinda throws his whole body into it. lol BUT, he certainly impressed me with the complex grooves and fills. Smooth as silk. I have some Dave Weckl with the Chick Corea acoustik bank and man can that guy play. I was listening to that CD early as a matter of fact... but Weckl's not new to me, used to listen to his solo drumming stuff in the early - mid 90s while in college. That should have told me something right there.

I appreciate the advice on drum models. If I could afford a nice Pearl kit I'd get it, but I just can't right now and I can't exactly keep waiting forever until I could to start learning to play.

I'm having a hard time finding a rehearsal space in the Albany NY area. The one listed in the local arts magazine doesn't have any smaller practice rooms available. Until I find a room I can't even get the set (otherwise it will sit in the corner of my living room taunting me! :D ).

On that note, the salesman at Guitar Center said that going with a small set of electronic drums would be a decent beginner's option. From what I've heard in music production, the electronic drums work but aren't a tactile or acoustic sounding reality. Have any of you played the newest electronic drums?

I agree about the lessons thing. The 2 guitar lessons I've taken were valuable in getting pointers and perspective in a way I couldn't have myself. I learn a lot from watching players, so I'll probably continue to watch the drum videos and maybe start working on some Change of Seasons (DT) and 2112 (Rush) parts. Figure if I can learn to play a few minutes of any prog rock without mistakles I'm probably about ready for gigging.

Which brings me to my final note - drumemrs are a rare breed, but drummers that can actually play are ever rarer! I'm giving myself 1 year, at the end of 1 year I am going to join a band of whatever caliber would have me. Then continue learning and growing from there.

Thanks for the responses. I was getting worried no one would reply and I was feeling a ltitle lost/unsure.
 
Re: Electronic drims

I've played electronic drums since the early 80's (naturally I also play accoustic). There are many pro's and con's.

The main pro of e-drums - you can play them without making much noise. Which leads to the question - Is it better to have a kit handy that you can play when you want - vs. having to travel to a loft somewhere else (not to mention the security issues related to storing your drums somewhere else)???

While e-drums can't sound or respond exactly like accoustic, they can come very close. E-drums fall into 2 basic playing surfaces - rubber pads and mesh heads. The mesh heads respond more like actual heads and are more user friendly (they absorb more of the stick impact - and they can be "tuned" for more or less response). However kits with mesh heads are normally more costly. The mesh heads normally respond better to subtle technique such as ghost notes. Rubber pads, while less expensive are much less responsive, can be more of a medical risk (since they don't absorb the impact) and are actually louder (the pads make more attack sound than mesh heads).

I own V-drums and have owned 4 different e-kits (and had hands on with many kits when I worked in a drum shop and in various studios) - I've also owned over a dozen accoustic kits. While I am a fan of e-drums for many reasons - I don't think they are the right tool to learn how to play. Playing drums requires many various techniques, including buzz rolls, ghost notes and other things that are hard to effectively do on e-drums.

So, while having e-drums to allow practise in an apartment, etc. can be a good thing they don't allow the entire range of stick technique. In fact, I would sugges you actually need a slightly different technique on e-drums than on accoustics.

I guess it comes down to the level of playing skills you want to master. If you want to learn how to play backbeats and grooves for songs then e-drums
could be a solution - however, if you want to learn subtle technique (including how to play with brushes, etc) then you would likely be better off with accoustics.
 
mikeh said:
I guess it comes down to the level of playing skills you want to master. If you want to learn how to play backbeats and grooves for songs then e-drums
could be a solution - however, if you want to learn subtle technique (including how to play with brushes, etc) then you would likely be better off with accoustics.
Click to expand...

Mike, thank you for enlightening and confirming what I suspected.

I'm going to make one stop before heading back to Guitar Center today. If that first stop doesn't turn up a rehearsal spot, I may not have a choice but to get a e-drum set. I can't count on ever finding a room to wait for my dream.

I'm glad to hear I could at least learn the 'basics'. Eventually I'm going to get an acoustic kit and eventually I'll want to learn some jazz and blues play, but for now it's going to be mostly rock and industrial. I won't need to learn the intricate parts of drumming until later on. Crawl before I can walk.

I'll also price "mesh heads", but I believe the entry level kit is already about $1,000 and that's with standards e-drum pads.

Appreciate the feedback and perspective!
 
Hey,

the new mapex M birch is out in the uk anytime in the next few weeks. it a great kit, maybe you should try it? Around £500

or perhaps go the for £750 m pro. then spend £250 on semi decent cymbals? paiste 802s maybe?
 
Birch vs maple vs popular

Just getting started with drums. What type of set is best: Birch, maple or popular?

I'm currently looking at a Gretch 5 piece Birch Catalina blue set.
 
the question about drum woods: http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/id14.html

Right there is the drum tuning bible (well, that link is specificly linking you to the "wood" section) and its got some REALLY DEEP STUFF about acoustics and all that junk. Its a really good read.

The best advice I can give you is buy TOP OF THE LINE CYMBALS first, and then get you some decent drums. You simply can not cut corners with cymbals...they are either good or terrible. Also, watch out for gimmick cymbals (zxt titaniums...anything weird like that), make sure and read plenty of reviews before buying anything, and let your ear be the judge. Always try stuff out.

As for drums, I know some people who dont know anything will be like "OMG PEARL MAEKS THE ONLY GOOD DRUMBS EVAR!", but after a while of being a bit biased against pearl, doing some research, and long hours on the pearl drummers forum talking to other drummers, Ive come to the conclusion that pearl really is the best bang for your buck. Not to mention they have amazing customer service. Those guys are top notch. A pearl export is a really solid kit, you can get it to sound good (with proper tuning/heads, of course), and look good, and it will last you!

And its a really good idea to take drum lessons as you start out, as mikeh said.

Good luck, and have fun!!! :D
 
Regarding types of wood - there is no right answer.

Many if not most drummers prefer Maple - for it's deeper tone. Some prefer Birch for it's midrange attack. Rarely do you find a set that is completely Poplar - although it is common to find Poplar plys mixed with other higher quality woods. Mahogany is another common wood.

Naturally, there are many levels of quality when it comes to woods - in particular Mahogany.

I currently own 3 accoustic kits (Maple, Birch & Mahogany) as well as an electric kit. I've owned Pearl, Yamaha, Mapex, Ludwig, Slingerland, Rodgers, Fibes, and Premier (I know I'm forgetting a couple) - in just about every type of wood and synthetic made.

I prefer Birch - it provides a very tight, focused attack (good mid range response) while maintaining a solid low end. Maple provides good low end but the attacke may not be as focused. Most other woods provide good projection but may lack the low end warmth (many low cost kits use low grade Mahogany, Basswood etc because it is hard and in projects (loud).

I agree that most mid range kits (Pearl Exports are the "best selling" drums made) can be made to sound good with proper tuning, good heads, etc - but choice of cumbals is often more important.
 
Got confirmation from my favorite local music shop that the city of Albany is frowning on storage/rehearsal lease units like the type I was looking for because of an incident a few years ago. The old 'spot' was broken into and aparently the owner didn't carry any liability insurance despite claiming security, etc. A lot of bad press over it. The other rehearsal place isn't in Albany as I originally thought.

Ended up trying the cheapest Yamaha e-drum set at Guitar Center. It was okay but wasn't very responsive. Next were the Roland vdrums for about $400 more. Man, what a difference in play and quality. The mesh snare made all the difference and so I plopped the extra $400 on them instead. :)

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/449913/

Comes with a free double foot pedal. Waiting on it arrive from another store. Off to make room in my closet sized living room. :p

Coincidence that they were playing the exact same Mike Portnoy clinic video while I was in there that I was watching yesterday at home? Kinda felt "fated" being there at that moment in time. ;) This is the most "right feeling" music move I've made in 10 years. I haven't ever been this excited!
 
Last edited:
Part 2 - are there any specific instructional videos that are considered "standard" in the drumming world? A lot of what I'm finding are more advanced lessons and not stuff for beginners.
 
Supercreep said:
play with your CD's. keep at it until it sounds like you want it to sound.
Click to expand...

Uh, I listen to a lot of prog rock. If I thought in a million years I could play Neil Peart's stuff my first day drumming I would have started a long time ago. As it is, I'm thinking Tom Petty, Kiss, or Aerosmith speed... but I'd rather be castrated with a dull putty knife then listen to 30 seconds of their shit. :D So my thinking is to play along to a video or such to learn the rudiments and exercises to get proper technique first, then tackle the big stuff piece-meal... am I missing something?? I want to do this "right", unlike my guitar playing which was 99% self-taught. I picked up on a lot of back technique early on that has been hard (even impossible) to break out of.

Bill Bruford says their's 26 rudiments. Anyone care to explain or link me to someplace that does??
 
If you do a web search something to the effect drumming + rudiments you can find several sites that show charts for rudiments.

Drum rudiments are much like a guitarist who practises scales. They are simply a series of drum strokes (double stroke rolls, para diddles, flams, etc.) that help master stick technique (just as scales help master finger technique).

One of the keys to successful rudimental practise - be able to lead with both the right hand or the left hand (many right handed drums can only lead with the right - a serious limitation).

Also, practise rudiments with the feet or breaking up the hits between hands and feet can really help 4 way coordination.

As an example, a double stroke roll is: R-R-L-L (or L-L-R-R) however you can break that up as: right hand-right foot-left hand-left foot (or any other combination).

Regarding videos - when I worked in a drum shop we played videos all day long and I found them to fall into 3 general catagories:

1) Artist "show-off" videos (hey, I'm a name drummer, look how good I am), 2) Function specific videos (double kick, brushes, etc)
3) Basic functions (how to set up a kit, how to play a basic beat, etc)

Group one is entertaining but of limited learning value - unless you already have good enough chops figure out what they are playing

Group two can be good, but only if you already have some very decent basic chops and are looking to improve on a specific thing

Group three can be helpful if you are a real rookie - but you can very quickly outgrow the value of these.

I think Dave Weckl has a good series geared toward the beginner, but with enough to grow with. The Zoro videos are very good if you waht to learn R & B funk type drumming (in my opinion knowing how to drive a funk groove is a must for any drummer). Dave Garibaldi had a couple of good videos for learning semi complex grooves. Jeff Pocaro had a decent video fro learning shuffle beats (shuffles are an absolute must for any drummer).

I beleive it was Bill Chappin (spelling???) who has a good video for basic stick technique (going back to the rudiment thing).
 
Mike you've saved the day, as you have for the extent of this thread! :)

I have one Pocara video, and you're right that it's pretty valuable (think it may even be the one about shuffles and sambas). It's definitely a little more 'advanced' because it deals with composition.

I like the breakdown of the 3 types of videos, that has been my experience too.

Weckl's on stage 2 or 3 for me. Anything he does I consider 'advanced'. He's a percussive god.

I'm off to see what I find on the internet. Today is the expected arrival date for the drums. :D
 
Oh, BTW - any ideas on what keywords to use to find proper stick holding technique? I'm thinking I'd like to try an 'open' hold but most drummers use closed.

Found the rudiments links on google, they're all there! :)
 
Thanks for the kind words - many people have given me information on this site - so it is simlply my duty to provide whatever insight I can.

Regarding a web site that can provide stick holding technique - I've never seen one. A photo is difficult to learn from. It's not just about the hand postion, it's also about where on the stick (for proper balance, etc) and proper use of finger and wrist action.

There are two basic grip techniques - traditional & matched. Matched grip means hold both sticks the same in a grip much like holding a hammer. Traditional grip is the style often used in jazz which stems from parade marching style (where the drum in angled over the leg).

Matched grip is easier for new players to "master". Traditional grip allows for more refined finger technique - but is harder to learn. Many drummers use both grips for different applications (as an example I use matched grip when I'm playing rock oriented material and traditional grip if I'm playing be-bop).

I suspect you have already "taught yourself" some version of match grip. Candidly, in the absence of a teacher, you would likely do better with matched grip.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top