Learn the Line!

Matt303

New member
--Start of Rant--

OK,

here is a question for all you drummers out there. I play in a band that covers a wide range of material. When we want to add a new tune, we all get copies of the original material and learn our parts. The Bass player learns the bass line, the Guitarist learns the Guitar line and sometimes the solo. I learn the Keyboard line and within the limitations (only having two hands and not using sequences) learn any brass or strings.


Why is it that Drummers think they can quote: "do my own version". I dont think I can improve on a stevie Wonder keyboard line, the very best I can do is reproduce it. The guitatist doesn't think that he can improve on a Nile Rogers or Larry Carlton guitar line, the Bass player understands the necessity to LEARN THE LINE! when covering a Nathan Watts or Bernard Edwards. So why do drummers think they can do a better version than Steve Gadd or Tony Thompson or J R Robinson???

Dont get me wrong, unlike some instrumentalists I fully appreciate the contribution of a great drum track. I find it all the more perplexing therefore when I can see the value in scoring out and playing a line but the vast majority of drummers I work with cannot.

Is this some kind of blind spot which only afflicts drummers, or do all those Durmmer jokes have some truth behind them, you know what they say, 'No smoke without fire' or is that; 'what sticks do you use then...' ???



--End of Rant---
 
As a long time drummer and teacher let me address a few of your "questions"
1 Most drummers don't have the ablity to sit and listen to what's being played.
2 If they did listen most can't play a groove like Gadd or Robinson. If they could they would get studio work.

OK, so these answers are meant to be sarcastic. But in the past month I've been hired twice by bands to help them audition other drummers. HUH!!!! Drummers showing up to auditions with little clue of what is supposed to be played. It was most dissapointing that one of these auditions took place in NYC. Yes, I do expect NYC drummers to be cut above the rest. The other reason I was hired was because drummers kept not showing up at their audition times. It's guys like this that give us all a bad name.
Let's get it together fellow drummers before all those drummer jokes come true. Now, I just broke up with my girlfriend....anybody got a place to live!!!!!!
 
I sort of side with the drummer here--I think cover bands should alter the material they perform at least a little bit. Because if you don't do that, you might as well be hearing a jukebox.
 
Whoopysnorp said:
I sort of side with the drummer here--I think cover bands should alter the material they perform at least a little bit. Because if you don't do that, you might as well be hearing a jukebox.

I agree that you can change the original tune as much as you like but only when there is an appreciation of what made it good in the first place.
Did Picasso produce Cubism because he was incapable of painting figuratively?
Did Stewart Copeland only play a single flam in Every Breath You Take because he was incapable of playing a more complex pattern?
Whereas I have the greatest respect for musicians producing original material, many times performances are compromised by the limited palette of techniques available to the musicians. Now so much music relies on DJs Loops and Samples its important that musicians can offers something in a live performance that cannot be offered by other forms.
Covers bands are employed to do a particular job; most drummers don’t learn the lines because they are too damn lazy, not for any noble artistic reason.
Here are a few of my favourite lazy drummer traits:

Play a fill ever 8 bars
Have lots of drums and hit all of them in every tune
Over play the Bass drum with irregular patterns which bare no resemblance to the bass line
Play a shuffle when there is no shuffle required
Don’t play a shuffle when there is a shuffle required
Play the ride at the wrong time and the Snare gets louder
Hi-Hat volume follows Snare, then blame the PA man
Expect someone else to count in the tunes
Gradually drift towards one speed in every song that’s wrong for every song

Drumming is an art form and is integral to the composition anyone who doubts that should listen to Steely Dan’s AJA and then imagine the same tunes with different drum patterns (perhaps with some of the traits described above) then tell me that its OK to do your own version
 
Matt... I agree with you whole heartedly!
I'm a 20 year drummer and if I ever plsy covers I try to learn and play the song the way it was written. IMO...when people go out and listen to cover band, they want to hear the songs with all the hooks. Not some unfamiliar rendition of the song. If we're doing a "remake" for our own recording and listening, it's a different story! We'll either decide to do it exactly or do it our way completely.
RF
 
I think there's a difference between tasteful alteration of a song and lousy playing. The things you listed, Matt, are all hallmarks of lousy playing. In my opinion, a cover band should probably not attempt to change the entire song, which means your drummer should at least learn the line to start off from. Then, he can work in any brilliant ideas he has to his version. I don't think it's healthy to assume that you can't improve on a recorded tune, no matter who it's by. I can think of plenty of music I would never try to alter, but I have records that I always thought would sound cool if they were a little different.
 
I think we have several different concepts floating around here.
1 Just plain lousy drumming. There's no getting around it some people should just not be allowed to perform in public.
2 Interpretation, not just for the drummer but for the band too. Whoopysnorp talked about altering the song so people don't get bored. It has to be the whole band to alter a song. Just not a drummer who decides to change the groove. UB40 did a great job of "Can't Help Falling In Love"
But the rant goes to the heart of what I see too many drummers trying to do as "their own thing" How important are the recorded drum parts. Try to play in a cover band and perform a song by Rush. Go ahead Mr drummer. Change the drum part and see how fast people start leaving the club. Do you think they are all drummers out there listening. NO, but people do expect to hear what they know is in the song.

The drummer does have the most leadway in interpatation. A little change here, a slightly different fill there but too many times this is clouded by an inablity to sit and learn the correct part.
 
You're right about confusing the issue, many of the points I listed are just bad drumming. To some extent the drummer does have more flexibility when it comes to fills which embellish the basic groove. Even in this however what can seem insignificant in an original track can make a massive difference to a tune. We played Stevie Wonders Master Blaster there is a triplet hi-hat pattern that crops up every bar or so that seems like an embellishment but is in fact integral to the track and locks in with the chorus patern. Something sounded wrong but we couldn’t work out what it was. As usual the drummer hadn’t spent any time analysing the part. I think it presumes a great deal to think that by listening a couple of times to a track on the radio you can pick out all the essential ingregients and replicate it.
I guess the thing I find difficult to understand is; the reason most of us play in the first place is because we are inspired by some performer or musical style and want to emulate. I enjoy the process of analysing part by a great player and my general playing ability is enhanced in the process. The financial returns for most of us never compensate for the time and money invested. So if people (particularly some drummers who seem most prone in this respect) don’t aspire to play well, why the hell don’t they work in a shop, bar or do something else. I just don’t understand the lack of motivation.
Anyway, thanks for the responses I had thought I might get a general 'F**k You' so I was pleasantly suprised. Guess I'll have to stop with those drummer jokes after all.
 
I see all of your points, but more often then not, Covers change out of an inability to recreate the original. Sounds like the drummer might need to work at it.

Fangar
 
First I must admit that Matt has a valid rant. I've been a drummer for many years and there have been times I've been too indifferent to a particular song to learn it correctly - which is wrong, and disrespectful to the song, the audience and most important to the other musicians who spent time learning their parts.

Now there have been many times, hopefully the majority of the time (when I liked a song) where I actually learned it correctly - and as a result improved as a musician. And there are times where I originally learned a song correctly, but after years of playing it in different bands (and thinking I had it right) I heard the original and realized that I had completely forgotten the original groove or some key phrase.

I think Fanger is correct that many times a player doesn't learn the part correctly simply because he/she doesn't have the technique and/or ear to hear and play the parts. But just as often - in particular with drummers we can be somewhat lazy and indifferent and simply not put in the effort. Lets face it there are a handful of key drum grooves that can be applieed to almost every song (with disregard to any subtle ghost notes or none too subtle fills) - and I think we drummers use that as a "shortcut"

My personal creed is "When in doubt, hit a cymbal".
 
I agree with Whoopy. The drummer should learn the song verbatim first - even if you intend on doing your own rendition. From there, [tasteful] modifications may be applied.
 
My perspective: I AM a lousy drummer. I mean, I shouldn't even be called a drummer at all because I am so lame. Oh, I can get behind a kit and play a few simple grooves and make them work, but that is not a drummer in my book. I can play a few rudiments, slowly. I have an OK sense of meter. Other than that, I have no training or experience to vary from my simple "skills".

The real drummers I've known could chart out a pattern for a kit and PLAY it! If the tune had some weird hi hat part against a complex kick part, they could do it. Along with the right fills and the right feel. Time signature, shuffles, dynamics were never a problem.

If a guy can't follow the line its because he probably does not have the training and practice to be ABLE to follow the line. It takes a long time to develop the ambidexterity to play complex stuff. Most rock music doesn't require that kind of depth of knowledge.

I can play those simple beats, but throw something complicated at me and I crumple into goo. Thats the difference between a schooled pro and a guy like me.
 
>My personal creed is "When in doubt, hit a cymbal".

That's funny! It could be useful too in those instances when the whole band loses track of where 1 is and everyone just looks at each other with panicked expressions waiting for someone to establish a new 1.
 
Back
Top