If you were to learn to play drums all over again

FALKEN

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how would you teach someone to learn drums, knowing what you know now?

I am trying to teach myself, and I have a pretty good routine going for when I practice. I spend an equal amount of time on

-snare roll
-tom/kick triplets (bonham thing, i hope you know what i mean)
-kick drum speed, double kicks (using single kick pedal) (I usually play a funk beat or something and practice this)
-fast punk rock beats
-swing
-spend a small amount of time playing fills

this is about 45-60 minutes and I noticed that every time I sit down my powers are greater. I have also spent some time playing along to CD's and mimicking fills and stuff, as well as spent some time just playing to a metronome.

So far, so good, but what other stuff am I missing?? (A lot, I'm sure) If you could list in order what you would try to accomplish. A lot of people say they just play until they find something they can't do, then practice until they can do it. what are those things? what order would you learn them in ? show me a road map....
 
Lots of new drummers I hear seem to only have one basic beat structure working for them. They get creative with their fills, but the foundation feels repetitive through a catalog of songs.

If I were teaching, I think I'd have them follow a (I'm having serious dejavu right now. I seem to remember getting my ass kicked for giving this very same advice :eek:).

Anyway, I'd have a new player follow a variety of different material, trying to emulate the different beat patterns. You can practice fills all day long, and that's cool, but you don't wanna become mentaly cast into a narrow field of comfort.
 
I think besides what you mentioned, you (me and everyone) can really benefit from playing to a click both slow AND fast and practice simple beats, then move up to subdivided beats and fills as well as syncopations but keeping it in time with the metronome.
It has helped me not speed through turn arounds and fills.
 
I have bought the Rock Drumming System with Mike Michalkow teaching. It was a good deal and a good investment. You can also download a DVD by Derek Roddy (Eternal Hate) He goes in depth on warm ups and things. Awesome video. You can download it from UTorrent or go to his site
http://www.derekroddy.com/ If I had it to do over again I would have practice more when I first started playing and bought a Tama Iron Cobra much sooner then I did. Good luck man. PM me if your interested in the DVD's I have. I can burn any DVD with a converter I bought a few years ago that is now almost impossible to find.
 
As a player for almst 50 years who was mostly self taught...but then spent a lot of time in later years trying to study and improve - If I were to offer drum teaching advice it would be:

1. Get a good teacher....someone who can teach proper technique (posture, holding the sticks, etc.) - once poor technique is learned, it can be very difficult to unlearn and bad technique can compromise overall skill development.

2. Learn a melodic instrument...learning to approach music with a melodic understanding can improve your ability to properly complement a song (and it make communicating with the other musicians in an educated manner....soooo much easier)

3. Develop an appreciation and understanding of all musical genres - it will improve overall versitility and significantly increase the potential to find gigs when the time comes

4. Be prepared and willing to commit a lot of time - while talent may be a gift....skill require a lot of time and effort. Accept that there will be other things that must be sacrificed to achieve a reasonable level of skill

5. Learn rudiments.......they my seem boring and it may even seem questionable how much you really need them to keep a beat.........but you will be surprised how much you can use rudiments in complex grooves and creative fills

6. If you are right handed....spend time developing your left hand (same with the feet). Learn to ride with the weak hand and learn to lead into fills with either hand......it will allow you to develop more interesting fills/grroves.

7. Never stop learning. At some point a teacher will have no muore to teach you....it is then time to move on to another teacher....and then another.....
 
This is all really great stuff....thanks!! But I don't think I was very clear in my original post.... I am looking for stuff to take into my next practice... technically...

So, for instance, if I were to teach someone lead guitar, the first thing I would have them do is chromatic exercises up and down the neck to develop picking clarity and speed, and cooridation with the fingers. Then I would teach the 5 chord positions up and down the neck. Then I would teach major, minor, and dominant scales, in all 5 positions.. Then and only then would I teach certain licks, then on to the pentatonic, etc. etc.

Xdrummer mentioned rudiments....can you explain this more ?

I guess I am looking to figure out what I don't know I don't know.
 
As a player for almst 50 years who was mostly self taught...but then spent a lot of time in later years trying to study and improve - If I were to offer drum teaching advice it would be:

1. Get a good teacher....someone who can teach proper technique (posture, holding the sticks, etc.) - once poor technique is learned, it can be very difficult to unlearn and bad technique can compromise overall skill development.

2. Learn a melodic instrument...learning to approach music with a melodic understanding can improve your ability to properly complement a song (and it make communicating with the other musicians in an educated manner....soooo much easier)

3. Develop an appreciation and understanding of all musical genres - it will improve overall versitility and significantly increase the potential to find gigs when the time comes

4. Be prepared and willing to commit a lot of time - while talent may be a gift....skill require a lot of time and effort. Accept that there will be other things that must be sacrificed to achieve a reasonable level of skill

5. Learn rudiments.......they my seem boring and it may even seem questionable how much you really need them to keep a beat.........but you will be surprised how much you can use rudiments in complex grooves and creative fills

6. If you are right handed....spend time developing your left hand (same with the feet). Learn to ride with the weak hand and learn to lead into fills with either hand......it will allow you to develop more interesting fills/grroves.

7. Never stop learning. At some point a teacher will have no muore to teach you....it is then time to move on to another teacher....and then another.....
This is a great post.:cool:

If you're just starting out on the drums, I have a good basic drum "lesson" page for beginners on my site. It even has a practice chart and link to an online metronome, which you should always use. If you're just starting out, get a practice pad and spend way more time on that than on the kit.

You can check it out here: www.ramirami.com/drumtips

(You can stop the music that automatically plays by clicking in the bottom left of the screen)
 
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Xdrummer mentioned rudiments....can you explain this more ?

Rudiments are much like scales on a melodic instrument. Things such as single stroke rolls, double stroke rolls, para-diddles, etc. promote the ability to execute smooth stick movement. Once someone can execute a steady, even single stroke roll, they can then accent certain hits to develop dynamics, etc.

You mentioned you worked on snare rolls. In application, that could be single stroke rolls (L-R-L-R) or double storke rolls (R-R-L-L) or even a para-diddle (R-L-R-R-L-R-L-L).

You also mentioned working on double kick rolls (which are normally single stroke rudiments)....but learning other rudiments with the feet can really improve double kick technique.

Another good exercise is to break up rudiments betwwen limbs.....as an example a single stroke rudiment could be executed as follows (right hand -left hand - right foot - left foot).

If you search on line under drum rudiments....you should find drum music (which is not much diffent than guitar tab) showing all the variaous rudiments.

You also mentioned - playing to CDs...............that is something that has developed the skills of drummers since the days of 78rpm recordings.

But, do not underestimate the value of finding a teacher. If you develop poor habits while teaching yourself....it can be very hard to unlearn those habits.
 
Thinking out loud:

* all drumming is based on the single stroke roll

* almost all music is based on 8 bars phrases, 4 beats to a bar

* get your feet solid and your hands will follow. The extra great drummers, like Steve Gadd, have an extra solid kick

* copy the greats drummers of all time, not the ones on that stupid poll they had here, but the real greats

* study the most recorded musician in the history of music - Hal Blaine. I believe that Hal is what most people want from a drummer, yet very few have ever heard of him, although he is probably the one musician most people in the world have heard the most.

* a good drum track should outline the form of the tune

* don't accept good drums and cymbals, go for over the top great - it won't cost any more, it's actually often cheaper

* don't buy new drums or cymbals - overall they suck and you're better off buying used

* when you play, listen to yourself secondarily. You should primarily be listening to whoever has the ball at the moment - it's usually the singer or the lead instrument

* remember that a drummer's roll 99.9999999999999% of the time is to be an accompanist.
 
* almost all music is based on 8 bars phrases, 4 beats to a bar

This is far too generalised for my liking. I know you said 'almost', but I still feel you've eliminated too many forms of music. Brubeck would turn over in his grave (if he was in it)). And Strauss definitely would.
 
Thinking out loud:



* almost all music is based on 8 bars phrases, 4 beats to a bar
That's why I gave up thinking out loud !:)
No offence.
That may have some bearing if we are thinking about Western music {and that's debatable}....but if you listen to music from all over this planet, I don't think that is true. Music is often like ways of thinking - depending on where you go in the world, there are differences that one just doesn't appreciate if you're not constantly exposed to them.
 
So true. I was heavy into Don Ellis and Brubeck growing up but when I talk I'm in general talking about popular music. If you listen to Ravi Shankar you'd have a hard time finding any 4/4 in 8 bar phrases.

If you wanted to put in all the disclaimers and conditions needed to make a post "safe" from every conceivable type of scrutiny it would take lawyers and pages and weeks. You have to use common sense, this isn't a classical music site or a "Greek Music in 7/8" site. It's a popular music site.

So when you see stuff I post, just assume it's about pop music like you'd see on tv, radio or on YouTube... the popular music of the last 100 years, in which 4/4 in 8 bars is the musical equivalent of a 4x8 sheet of plywood - learn about that, everything else is an exception.

But getting back to the OP, when I was a kid, a really good drummer named Garfield White (one of the White brothers in Halifax, Nova Scotia) gave me the best advice I've ever got:

"It's all about feel"
 
So true. I was heavy into Don Ellis and Brubeck growing up but when I talk I'm in general talking about popular music. If you listen to Ravi Shankar you'd have a hard time finding any 4/4 in 8 bar phrases.

If you wanted to put in all the disclaimers and conditions needed to make a post "safe" from every conceivable type of scrutiny it would take lawyers and pages and weeks. You have to use common sense, this isn't a classical music site or a "Greek Music in 7/8" site. It's a popular music site.

So when you see stuff I post, just assume it's about pop music like you'd see on tv, radio or on YouTube...
Point taken.
I try not to assume {I don't always succeed} because I find people are often full of surprizes. I get your point about disclaimers and whatnot and I agree, even if the "lawyers and pages and weeks" were in there, the same thing would happen ! I guess I just like to check with people what they mean by particular statements. As I've followed various threads, I note that not doing so has sometimes led to lengthy wars.........or some really interesting debates/points of view. Scrutiny of one's point ain't a bad thing anyway. But I get you !
On a more musical note, I also made the point because pop/rock has been so successful over the decades at absorbing so many different kinds of music {and threatening to expand}.
 
So true.
If you listen to Ravi Shankar you'd have a hard time finding any 4/4 in 8 bar phrases.


"It's all about feel"
It's funny you should mention that. I've loved Indian music for 30 years and I still have trouble much of the time working out where one phrase ends and another begins !
 
It's funny you should mention that. I've loved Indian music for 30 years and I still have trouble much of the time working out where one phrase ends and another begins !

Me too. My ears are hopelessly "normalized" to pop music. Meanwhile kids in Africa are dancing in 11/4.

The most fucked up time signature of all time has to be Bulgarian Bulge off of Don Ellis' Tears of Joy album. He brought over pianist Milcho Leviev from Bulgaria who grew up on non-4/4 music. The tune is in a fast 33/8.
 
I would still train the same way with rudiments and learning Western notation, but I wouldn't wait so long to start learning to think in other types of time signatures. I think I would want to be taught to think of time as circular rather than linear. Most of the cultures outside of our own limited Western style, think of time as circular. This is why even in jazz, so many conservatory trained musicians have such difficulty in feeling the time. Modern studio recordings to the "click track" only allow for this very, very regimented and mechanical way of thinking. (It is a very necessary ability to have when playing Western "pop" and classical music, but that doesn't mean it must be applied to everything else).
For the past few decades, I have made my way as a percussionist for Middle-Eastern music and for belly dance. What was said about Bulgarian music sounds very familiar to me. Some of the Balkan music has what most would consider very odd time signatures.
A great deal of traditional Arabic music will fit fairly comfortably in our 4/4, 2/4,3/4 mentality but among the Turkish and other Balkan music, I customarily play 5/4, 7/8, 9/8 and 10/8 times and on a few occasions some signatures as odd as 13/9 (that would leave my old drum corps teacher with crossed eyes!).
 
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