Sound quality of Tascam 414

dstraight

New member
I recently bought a Tascam 414. For the most part, I like it a lot. I found it very convenient to use and flexible for sketching simple musical ideas and learning to arrange parts. And, I'm sure this device could be used for a lot more than I'm currently using it for (i.e. making demo tapes, recording a live band).

The over all sound quality is good and I am very happy with it, however there is a subtle problem in reproducing sound. This problem is not noticeable until you lay a clean guitar track down (I only play the guitar). When I lay a clean track down I hear a warbling sound upon play back which I find to be rather annoying. Like I said, its very subtle and therefore you may not notice it or you'll have to make a point to listen for it. In fact, I think most people would never hear this. I don't hear it at all when I'm playing my guitar fast (clean) or when I've added effects to my guitar. I only notice this problem when I'm playing out clean, crisp chords slowly.

I'm currently investigating other options. I believe what I'm hearing is related to a measurable parameter known as wow and flutter. Perhaps something as simple as using a better cassette tape is in order (I am using TDK C-60, High Bias), but I am also looking into buying the Tascam 424 mkIII, since its wow and flutter is half that of the Tascam 414.

Has anyone experienced a similar complaint? I tend to wonder if this is just a problem with cassettes in general making the problem hard to correct even with the best tape transport mechanisms around.

Any information would be much appreciated.

David
 
That tape is pretty mediocre, (TDK C-60) but it shouldn't be the source of this problem unless you dropped it in the pool. To eliminate this variable, use the shortest cassettes you can. I've found the TDK SM-30 to be a very reliable cassette. If you can hear actual wow and flutter from a tape recorded in your 414, then there is a physical problem with the unit. Try an easy experiment to verify this if you have a source of a constant frequency tone. Record this and see if it does the same thing on playback.

[This message has been edited by drstawl (edited 07-07-1999).]
 
I do not know for sure if what I am hearing is related to wow and flutter or not. As described above, what I am hearing is VERY subtle. I am being very picky and perhaps I'm expecting too much out of an ordinary compact cassette, but I am curious to find out if one can tell the difference between 0.12% WRMS and 0.06% WRMS. Perhaps this is vastly too small of a difference for an ear to notice or maybe these numbers are far below our threshold of sensitivity to wow and flutter. I do not know as of yet, but I do hear and extremely small amount of what I call warble upon playback - I almost do not hear it at all. I'm just wondering if there is anyone out there has noticed something similar.

David
 
Is it like an "accompanyment noise". Silence when you don't play, but when you play something you hear some noise with the guitar?
Is this not noticeable when you are playing the tape at a low volume but when you play it back at a high vokume you hear it?

The 424mkII and mkIII do something like that and it is the dbx noise reduction letting noise through with the music. I only noticed it when I recorded and listened to acoustic guitar. It can be handled by rocording the signals hot, and keeping the playback low. Mic positioning is also important. I found that putting the mic directly in fromt of the soundhole aggravated the problem. Put the mic about 6 inches away from the guitar over the 14 fret pointed towars the point where the fretboard joins the main body.

Experiment from there.

To get rid of real speed variation caused by tension differences within the tape do this:

FF to tape completely and then RR the tape completly before recording.

ditto before playback once a tape has been stored unplayed for a long period of time.

This takes up tape slack and keeps the tape even in tension.
 
Well, you might post a brief MP3 and we could all give a listen. But if your ears are that sensitive, perhaps your only comfort will be in a digital medium that's computer-controlled as to playback/recording, like Minidisc or hard disk or computer-based...
 
I had a similar problem with my 414 a few weeks ago. After laying down the first track (very dry guitar) I went back to overdub and found that the playback was about 1/4 step flat. I re-recorded and the problem seemed to go away, but it was kind of strange. Hopefully it was the tape and not a symptom of something worse than you have experienced.

As long as we're talking 414's...I think the manual is really terrible. Is there a better written source, or should I just keep experimenting on my own (and reading your postings of course)?
 
It has been a while since I followed up with these posts. I'm a microwave engineer and, well, it keeps me rather busy. Needless to say, I have not had a lot of time to perform experiments on my 414, however have come to the conclusion that it's normal operation and performance fall a little below my taste for reproduction of sound.

The only experiments I've done are as follows:

I recorded my tuning fork (which is at 440Hz) using both dbx and without noise reduction (I made two different recordings). Guess what? I didn't hear that fluttering sound that I've described in previous posts.

Next, I recorded a single note from my guitar and could hear the flutter clearly. I picked the note in the following way; I plugged my guitar straight into the tascam 414 and picked the high E string while fretting the 12th fret. I used a pick and plucked the string at its anti-node (an attempt to have less harmonics). I believe the frequency of this note to be about (440)(7)(2)^(1/12) = 3.263kHz. So, with this empirical information, I claim (for the moment) that if a single tone above 5kHz is recorded one would be able to exploit the limitation of the machine. I picked 5kHz, because electric guitar strings sound bright and in general when things sound bright you're hearing harmonics along with the fundamental. The 2nd harmonic of this note should be 6.526kHz. For those of you who would like to try this experiment I'd recommend not using a pick. Plucking the string with the fleshy part of your finger should give the least harmonics (i.e. something closer to a single or 'pure' sine wave). I could repeat this experiment without using a pick and compare it to when I do use a pick and this should serve as an indicator as to where things fall apart. I could be hearing the 3rd harmonic, 9.789kHz, which doesn't get reproduced faithfully.

Eventually, I'll back this simple experiment up with something a tad more concrete and this should point out exactly where things aren't happening so well. I think I might be able to find an audio generator at work and other various equipment needed to document any divergence in reproduction of the original sound. If I actually go through this much trouble I will probably post the results with graphs and whatnot on my web site.


In answer to some of the questions posted about what the cause might be I have this to say; it is definitely not due to the dbx noise reduction. I'd love to post an mp3, but lack the technology at home (I'd rather spend my money on guitars than computers). But, I may be able to find a way to get that mp3 up one day. I really would like others to hear what I'm hearing. I am sure I could easily convince others that I have a 414 that works properly, yet is shy of reproducing higher frequencies well. I have not experience playback speeds that differ from recording speeds as tonroa has pointed out.


Originally, I thought the cause of the problem was due to wow and flutter, but it may very well be an azimuth problem. Or should I say variation of azimuth as the tape moves past the heads? Forgive me if I don't have my terms correct, its been at least 15 years since I thumbed through an audio book. Anyway, my so called azimuth seems to fit the symptom (lower frequencies record fine, higher frequencies don't record as well).

In conclusion to my dissertation! I want to point out that my Tascam 414 is a good unit and I like it a lot and use it a lot. I use this device as a scratch pad to record ideas (or make up for the lack of musical ability?) I bought this unit so that I could write parts for guitar and bass. It serves this purpose very well and its portability can't be beat. And, in all fairness (especially to those new), I don't want to make the Tascam 414 sound like a piece of junk -this unit sounds great! You (or I at least) do not hear ANY problem when recording normal music with effects and things added. Also, I want to thank and encourage those that have shared practical information about cassette 4 tracks, such as using tapes of shorter length, rewinding and fast-forwarding tapes before recording.

I can be reached via email at: dstraigh@ix.netcom.com
 
Hello, I'm back with some more information regarding my 414. I recently bought a metronome which happens to have a standard frequency output and a jack which enables me to plug it into my Tascam. The metronome is made by Quik Time and cost $20. The frequency is printed near the switch and says A440 (which I assume to mean 440Hz). I have listened to this tone and it is definitely has many harmonics (integer multiples of the fundamental frequency - 440Hz). I'm in the habit of recording a tone before I start my piece so that when I add a track I have a convenient source to tune too (as tonroa pointed out before - I have experienced speed variation and sometimes need to adjust the pitch knob). Getting back to the metronome; I definitely could hear some type of modulation (I choose the word modulation for its generality since I am not sure if what I'm hearing really is wow & flutter). This should be a reproducible experiment. As I've said before the Tascam 414 sound good, but I do hear something very subtle and I am more curious as to how things work than I am bothered by the unwanted modulation.
 
dstraight...for whatever it's worth, I've experienced the same problem you're describing here with my 414 when I've used TDK tapes. I've never experienced the problem with Maxell XLII tapes, which are now my tape of choice for recording. I also recommend 30-minute tapes if you can find them (and can keep your songs under 7-1/2 minutes). You might try using Maxell tapes and see what happens.
 
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