My PERFECT 244 - another Bad Rubber inquiry

...I might pull the trigger on one of the auctions you spoke about earlier. Worst case, you're protected by PayPal and will have your money refunded if it doesn't work out. That eBay seller looks promising though.
One problem. The Ebay seller (who looks entirely reputable) is in Merry Olde England, and PayPal Protection requires I return the part to the seller. The seller has it worked out so he mails to the U.S. for about $5, but I'll bet it'll cost me twice that to send it back, if need be. :mad: Life Lesson 101. :D

I've sent an email inquiry to this supplier, whom I think is in Canada. Do you know anything about him?

www.vintage-electronics.cc/tascamkits.html

Thanks. I appreciate every word of advice you or DrZ type.
Tom

PS. Why do you think my idler tire rubber is on its last legs? Except for the "unfortunate impression" on the lower tire, the rubber seems normal - no cracks, no oily surface, flexible enough to stretch over the hub edges and even get "inverted' a bunch of times when I tried to mount it inside-out (heehee). Not arguing with you. I just wonder if you see/understand something I'm missing...
 

While I can't speak from first hand experience, I've heard good things about him. It's worth a try.

Why do you think my idler tire rubber is on its last legs?[/B] Except for the "unfortunate impression" on the lower tire, the rubber seems normal - no cracks, no oily surface, flexible enough to stretch over the hub edges and even get "inverted' a bunch of times when I tried to mount it inside-out (heehee). Not arguing with you. I just wonder if you see/understand something I'm missing...

Well, you see, that's a very common failure on cassette decks of this age and that "unfortunate impression" is a tell-tale sign of the rubber getting softer. Its decomposition started already, years back. It may still work, pull tape for several months or years but it's on its last legs.

When you put the belts on, preferably get a 90min tape (its weight will test the rubber better). Forward it to almost the end and hit play, about 1 or 2 min from the end. If it goes all the way to the end without a hiccup then the idlers are still fine. Then test REW / FF / PLAY again, on beginning, middle and end of tape.

That the idlers are not hard / slick is good 'cause that would cause them to slip and fall apart in chunks. They're still good enough, maybe for a few more years but that's what I call "on its last legs" but that shouldn't necessarily dissuade you from selling just with a new set of belts.
 
G**dammitt!!!

I had no idea you could still get parts for a 244. The contacts were going bad on mine (FF and Play) and also a pinch roller finally took a shit so I chucked it in the garbage. I got tons of tapes I recorded on that machine. As we all know "Nebraska" was recorded on a 244. And mine sits under 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 tons of garbage in the land fill.


That's it....I'm getting my shovel....
 
I know where you can find a replacement...

I got tons of tapes I recorded on that machine...mine sits under 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 tons of garbage in the land fill.
My 244 is in excellent shape. Once I mount "new rubber" it'll be like new. If your Landfill Archeology project doesn't turn anything up, maybe you'll buy mine to revive your old tapes.

I worked on a reel-to-reel TEAC A3340S and it's 2-track counterpart for years. Went to the Portastudio 244 when adulthood finally caught up with me and forced a 'downsizing'. Sold off most of my demo studio gear and bought the 244 "just to keep my hand in". As it turns out, I hardly used the 244 at all, so I don't have any archived work on cassette.

That's why I'm refurbing and selling it.
 
When you put the belts on, preferably get a 90min tape (its weight will test the rubber better). Forward it to almost the end and hit play, about 1 or 2 min from the end. If it goes all the way to the end without a hiccup then the idlers are still fine. Then test REW / FF / PLAY again, on beginning, middle and end of tape.
Thanks for cluing me in to the test procedure. I'm stopping by a local hardware store to see about plumbing washers. My idler tire rubber looks particularly "fresh" to me, but you know a lot more about this than I do - and I don't want to sell someone a "ticking time bomb" :D

That link you provided a few posts back seemed to suggest that the plumbing washer approach might not work for the long run...so I don't know...

Vintage Electronics sells the two-belt-set for $17 plus $5.25 shipping. They're not TEAC / Tascam belts, but they are in stock.
Logic sez, try that first. Thanks.
 
Love to have it!! Alas, I am pretty broke

I saw one on ebay a couple years back with a flight case and they were asking $800.00 for it (I don't know if they got that much).Analog stuff is getting expensive. Last year I sold a Teac 4 track r2r (I think it was a "24-4" or something like that) for 250.00 bucks and I thought I made out like a bandit. It was mint condition. Now I hear that I might have gotten 600.00 to a thousand bucks for it?

Let me know when you are ready to sell. Thanks
 
That link you provided a few posts back seemed to suggest that the plumbing washer approach might not work for the long run...so I don't know...

I now feel a lot more confident about those off the shelf washers. It's been 5 months and they're still going strong. I think that those plumbing washers are quality enough to warrant dealing with them. Just make sure, if you buy them, that you fit them on properly, so that they're snug and even out any bumps or protrusions, as per Dr. Zee's instructions. Check their "roll" while in motion. You can actually activate the play/rew/ff mechanism by holding the points with your fingers as would a cassette when inserted.

Vintage Electronics sells the two-belt-set for $17 plus $5.25 shipping. They're not TEAC / Tascam belts, but they are in stock.
Logic sez, try that first. Thanks.

That's actually not a bad deal and if they fit, why not.

Anyone that can get several additional years out of their portastudio, by changing out the rubber, by any method necessary, is not that bad of a proposition. Yeah, to an extent, rubber is rubber and it's hard to say which source of that "rubber" will outlast the other. Sometimes it's good to go with your gut.
 
...a couple years back with a flight case and they were asking $800.00 for it...Analog stuff is getting expensive. Last year I sold a Teac 4 track r2r for 250.00 bucks and now I hear that I might have gotten 600.00 to a thousand bucks for it?
Yeah, sounds like the story of my life, too. :D Seems like every time I've sold anything, I wish later that I hadn't...


Here's a related link I saw today: VINTAGE GEAR PRICES RISING


Let me know when you are ready to sell. Thanks
Will do, but now I'm thinking, I've kept it for 26 years. Maybe I'll hold on for a couple more and sell it for what I paid! But $900 in 2010 dollars is worth only about $300 in 1984 dollars, due to inflation. Still a lot better than the $100 - $200 its worth right now...:D
 
Oh, my O rings...!

The local hardware store has washers that are just about perfect in terms of diameter and width, and for only $0.69 each.

BUT they are 'O' rings, with a round profile rather than the flat surfaces of your faucet washers. I have three large home center chain stores and a couple of chain hardware stores within driving distance, so I'll try them all - hopefully on the weekend.


OFF TOPIC: There's a banner advert for FULL SAIL University at the top of this forum interface right now. In the picture, a couple of guys are seated at a mixing console that's as big as my living room! Must be 150 channel strips, and what are they recording...? Probably some rapper muttering, "Uh huh, das right. Uh huh, das right!" over a really basic syth drum track.
Crazy, yes? :D
 
The local hardware store has washers that are just about perfect in terms of diameter and width, and for only $0.69 each.

BUT they are 'O' rings, with a round profile rather than the flat surfaces of your faucet washers. I have three large home center chain stores and a couple of chain hardware stores within driving distance, so I'll try them all - hopefully on the weekend.

It's interesting that you should mention the "O" rings 'cause I had a conversation with one of the tech people over at TEAC. He mentioned that I can try it but that there is a possibility that an "irregular rotation" may happen but I'm not sure what he meant by that.

Remember that stores will usually not stock just the actual rubber washer but will come with other crap included (the adapter metal ring etc..). That's why it will be a bit more expensive, a few bucks or so for the thing.
 
Remember that stores will usually not stock just the actual rubber washer but will come with other crap included (the adapter metal ring etc..). That's why it will be a bit more expensive, a few bucks or so for the thing.
Yeah. The store I tried was a very, very old mom&pop operation. This store looks and operates just like it did 100 years ago. Amazing. You can go in there and buy ONE of anything. One 1/4" washer... and the old cash register goes "ch'ching" when they put your nickles in the drawer :)

So now I'll have to move into the 21st century, dammit. I think I'll untimately buy the upper and lower "assemblies" from TEAC America. $26 for the pair(!) but if "vintage" analog equipment prices are rising, it'll be a worthwhile investment. 'Just have to sell the machine before the new rubber goes bad... :D

ANY IDEA WHERE I CAN FIND ADVICE ONLINE FOR STORING RUBBER, LONG-TERM?
 
I think I'll untimately buy the upper and lower "assemblies" from TEAC America. $26 for the pair(!) but if "vintage" analog equipment prices are rising, it'll be a worthwhile investment. 'Just have to sell the machine before the new rubber goes bad... :D

Well, I wouldn't say that vintage equipment prices are going up. That's true for certain things but not others. The 244 / 246 has not really been trending upwards like that. OK, maybe a little bit over the years but nothing dramatic. Granted you'll find new old stock or mint in box examples going for significantly more than the run off the mill average piece but that's still pretty rare. So the reality is that I wouldn't hold off selling because one day, in a few years or so, you'll be able to get 1000 bucks for it or even half that. I highly doubt it will happen. Not that it's not worth all that money but that it's the reality of the marketplace. IMO, if you're going to restore that 244 then do it for yourself or for someone that you can gift but I personally wouldn't sell it, unless you're motivated to and if that, I wouldn't take any less than $200. Unfortunately your typical buyer won't understand the service you've performed and thus won't be interested. Too bad.

As far as the new rubber going bad.... well, if the recorder is looked after and stored correctly, the reality is that it will last at least another decade. You're then looking at a 30 year old 244. I think that when you're pushing the 30 - 40 year mark, that's when things start going south, electronically, if not sooner. Point is that "rubber" should not be an issue anymore and if you can get another decade out of a 20 year old tape deck, that's not a bad deal. Those things can probably last 30-40 years with minor maintenance and probably can be rebuilt to last another 40. Show me a digital rig capable of doing that. :D

Do you by any chance have the original box / paperwork for this unit?

ANY IDEA WHERE I CAN FIND ADVICE ONLINE FOR STORING RUBBER, LONG-TERM?

I dunno but common sense dictates not to expose it to extreme environment. I'd store it in an air tight bag (maybe throw in a dry silica pouch), away from the sun, in a temp moderate dark place. Can't hurt.
 
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I wouldn't take any less than $200. Unfortunately your typical buyer won't understand the service you've performed and thus won't be interested. Too bad.
I was hoping for $200+, back before I had to pull it apart, study it and spend $50 on parts. As digi gear becomes smaller and more streamlined, I think more people will long for the "earthy, organic rock/pop music scene of yesteryear" which really was typically a pig sty that smelled of stale beer, ash trays and B.O. But the young ones don't know that, and the old ones have forgotten. $ :D $ :D $


I think that when you're pushing the 30 - 40 year mark, that's when things start going south electronically. Point is that "rubber" should not be an issue anymore and if you can get another decade out of a 20 year old tape deck, that's not a bad deal.
I think the life of typical electronics depends quite a bit on how much use the unit has seen. In this case, very little use. I don't think I'll ever use it seriously, so despite your good advice, I'm selling it. Just a matter of when.


Do you by any chance have the original box / paperwork for this unit?
I have a spotless user manual, spotless schematics and original bill of sale (Jan 1984)...and a spotless punchin/out pedal. I think the box is long gone, but maybe it's buried in "the overflowing box loft" above the garage... Probably not, though.


...not to expose it to extreme environment. I'd store it in an air tight bag (maybe throw in a dry silica pouch), away from the sun, in a temp moderate dark place. Can't hurt.
I'm right on track then. Always stored in a cool, dry basement though not air-tight, and no desiccant packs. I wonder if the silica would make it too dry and cause cracking...? Even in the cool/dry, my belts gave out, idler tire got indented just from sitting against that knurled brass rotor (almost no spring pressure there, either). But my pinch roller is PRISTINE(!) and my electronics seem A1. Life is good.
 
Original Price -and- Removing Screws

Just because I'm immensely curious... what is the price specified in that bill of sale?
It was $895 pre tax


QUESTION 1:
I know I need to remove screws 2 and 3, per the image below. Must I remove center screw 1 in order to remove the capstan belt?

QUESTION 2:
Dr ZEE suggested nail polish remover for releasing whatever that "locker" coating is. I don't have any NPR, but I have acetone. Will that work?

QUESTION 3:
I can't inspect the unit right now, so I'll ask you guys. Fastener 1 appears to be made of vinyl or other plastic. I might be wrong and I hope it turns out to be metal... If it's plastic, will cleaning with acetone damage it?
 

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It was $895 pre tax

Outstanding! That's $1800 USD (pre tax) if bought in todays dollars. :eek:

QUESTION 1:
I know I need to remove screws 2 and 3, per the image below. Must I remove center screw 1 in order to remove the capstan belt?

DO NOT remove the center (#1) screw.

QUESTION 2:
Dr ZEE suggested nail polish remover for releasing whatever that "locker" coating is. I don't have any NPR, but I have acetone. Will that work?

I think acetone will work but don't use it near plastic or other non metal parts. I think just a little, tiny amount on that coating will be enough to release the screw. I personally just used a good fitting screwdriver and, with a bit of strength, undid the screws. I now would opt to use something to dissolve that screw coating tho. It's a good idea.

QUESTION 3:
I can't inspect the unit right now, so I'll ask you guys. Fastener 1 appears to be made of vinyl or other plastic. I might be wrong and I hope it turns out to be metal... If it's plastic, will cleaning with acetone damage it?

You don't want to undo that vinyl / plastic center screw. Don't touch it. The belt slips under the bracket, under-neath that center screw. Just gently lift the bracket up and you'll see what I mean. Again, don't touch that center screw.

BTW, I have some good photos of the process so, if you're a bit patient, I'll try uploading them later.
 
Outstanding! That's $1800 USD (pre tax) if bought in todays dollars. :eek:
Yeah! And I'd probably settle for half that :laughings:


DO NOT remove the center (#1) screw.
You don't want to undo that vinyl / plastic center screw. Don't touch it. The belt slips under the bracket, under-neath that center screw. Just gently lift the bracket up and you'll see what I mean. Again, don't touch that center screw.
Man, am I glad to hear that. If that #1 screw really is vinyl, I figured it'd get wrecked in the process - especially with the hard thread-locker applied. You're in Canada, right? So if I said I'd be forced to employ the Handyman's Secret Weapon, you'd know what I meant...right? :D


BTW, I have some good photos of the process so, if you're a bit patient, I'll try uploading them later.

I saw an earlier thread (before I posted my own) that had a decent set of how-to photos. It might have been yours, and I studied Dr ZEEs' website until I wore out the pixels. So thanks, but I think I have enough "visual reference" amassed. If I hit a snag, I might have to impose on you though...
 
Tom, not a problem. Found some previously unpublished photos from the servicing I've done. The bracket is gently pulled up, actually resting on one of the cables (so that I can slip the belt with 2 free hands). There is some lubricant / oil where that center thingy is protruding from the flywheel so be very careful not to touch the belt while slipping it underneath. It's microsurgery. :D
 

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A couple more....
 

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