2488 Accurate Pasting While Using Bars/Beats Display

soundchaser59

Reluctant Commander
When using the Bars / Beats time display during copy and paste functions, I've read some posts where people cant get the timing to work out correctly.

Two things led me to this post. For one thing, I do quite a bit of copy and paste, silence, cut, open, track editing tricks.

For another thing, I was using SMPTE time code to synch my sequencer, which means I was hooked on that ABS time display because SMPTE runs on HH:MM:SS:Frames and sub frames, just like the MTC display.

However, I recently quit using SMPTE after Tascam fixed the Midi Synch glitch in the 2488 with update v.1.02. I recently started using Midi Synch to slave my sequencer to the 2488, and I found it was actually more intuitive musically to get used to the bars+beats display.

But the first time I tried to do a copy paste, the timing was way off. Why?? :confused:

It's because if I set the TO point on the fly while the transport is running, I try to set it to (for example) bar 31 beat 1. That is where I want to paste a copy of my harmony vocal. Or perhaps I hit the STOP button at bar 31 beat 1, and the display reads Bar 31 Beat 1. Then I set the TO point for Bar 31 Beat 1.

Right? :eek:

Not! The timing will be off, and now I know why.

If I am running at a tempo of 120 bpm, that means 2 beats per second. 30 bars at 4 beats per bar would be one minute. But in the background, the 2488 is actually thinking in terms of sub frames and frames per second. At 24 fps, one beat (half a second) will actually encompass 12 frames. The first 30 bars would be the first minute, and bar 31 beat 1 should be (in theory......bear with me...) at absolute time of 00:01:00:00:0

Even though I think I hit the STOP button at Bar 31 Beat 1, even though I think my TO point is set for Bar 31 Beat 1, even though the transport display returns to read Bar 31 Beat 1 when I press the TO button......the 2488 doesn't actually tell me if it is set for the exact correct frame+subframe or not. The 2488 sets the TO point for the exact frame and subframe at which I pressed the button!!! It does NOT read my mind and assume that I meant to press the buttons exactly at bar 31 beat 1. :confused: :mad: :eek:

In this example, Bar 31 Beat 1 should fall on an ABSOLUTE time value of 00:01:00:00:0 ........BUT....... my imperfect reflexes probably actually hit the buttons a few frames late, maybe 00:01:00:07:3 (7 frames and 3 subframes late). So when I press the TO button, the display might say "BAR 31 BEAT 1" ........BUT.......if you switch the display to ABS after hitting the TO button, it will read "00:01:00:07:3" and that does NOT correspond to the exactly correct midi time clock value for Bar 31 Beat 1. Rami mentioned this "flaw" in the 2488, but this is why it didn't work correctly!

How to work around this? Quite simple....... :D

(1) You can prove this to yourself by doing a simple experiment. Pretend you want to paste something, and you play the song up to the point you want to paste, and at the correct beat you hit the Shift+TO buttons to mark the "paste to" point.

(2) Now, stop the transport and hit the TO button. The display will read the correct Bar and Beat that you think you want to paste to. Using the cursor keys, but without moving the jog wheel, switch to MTC or ABS display and make a note of the absolute time value shown. After you know the absolute time value, switch back to bars and beats display.

(3) Now use the jog wheel to manually forward the display a few beats, or even a few bars, then hit the YES button. Wait a couple of seconds, then use the jog wheel to manually go back to the bar and beat number where you want to paste to. Hit the YES button.

(4) Now switch back to MTC or ABS time display and see if the absolute time value is the same as the time value you remember from step #2. I bet it's not, it will be a few frames and sub frames off. If they match, then congratulations, you have perfect reflexes and you were able to set the TO point on the fly at the EXACT millisecond at which the desired bar and beat is supposed to be. With the way the 2488 counts absolute time, this would mean your reflexes are accurate to within 3 milliseconds! (1 subframe = approx 3ms) Nicely done! :cool:

Make sense to anybody?? Try the experiment a few times until you figure it out. The moral of the story is always use the jog wheel to manually set the bar and beat value for your TO point, that way the absolute time value behind the bars and beats will get set correctly to the EXACT time at which that beat should start. This will greatly decrease or eliminate the timing errors experienced by people who do a lot of pasting while in bars and beats display.

hope this helps! - SC :)
 
(1) You can prove this to yourself by doing a simple experiment. Pretend you want to paste something, and you play the song up to the point you want to paste, and at the correct beat you hit the Shift+TO buttons to mark the "paste to" point.

(2) Now, stop the transport and hit the TO button. The display will read the correct Bar and Beat that you think you want to paste to. Using the cursor keys, but without moving the jog wheel, switch to MTC or ABS display and make a note of the absolute time value shown. After you know the absolute time value, switch back to bars and beats display.

(3) Now use the jog wheel to manually forward the display a few beats, or even a few bars, then hit the YES button. Wait a couple of seconds, then use the jog wheel to manually go back to the bar and beat number where you want to paste to. Hit the YES button.

(4) Now switch back to MTC or ABS time display and see if the absolute time value is the same as the time value you remember from step #2. I bet it's not, it will be a few frames and sub frames off. If they match, then congratulations, you have perfect reflexes and you were able to set the TO point on the fly at the EXACT millisecond at which the desired bar and beat is supposed to be. With the way the 2488 counts absolute time, this would mean your reflexes are accurate to within 3 milliseconds! (1 subframe = approx 3ms) Nicely done!

Make sense to anybody?? Try the experiment a few times until you figure it out. The moral of the story is always use the jog wheel to manually set the bar and beat value for your TO point, that way the absolute time value behind the bars and beats will get set correctly to the EXACT time at which that beat should start. This will greatly decrease or eliminate the timing errors experienced by people who do a lot of pasting while in bars and beats display.

hope this helps! - SC


I might actually try this now. Thanks.
If I get too far into editing and "HR level mastering"...I'll probably move to computer based though. $250 flat panel 19" screens+ mastering software.

the PC is hard to beat for options, and editing there isn't any of the tabletops-standalones that have a 19" screen for editing.

good post....damn thats alot of typing!
 
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