VST System link kicks ass!!!!!

[JR#97]

This is something I posted at the cubase.net forums concerning the VST System Link feature in Cubase SX and Nuendo 1.6x. I'm posting it here in case anybody is interested.

I'm new to the forum, but have found the info on the VST System Link to be invalueable. So for my first post, I'm going to share how I got the VSL to work on my set-up.

Most of the problems I ran into were related to my audio cards. Korg 1212 i/o in an old PII 350 and a Terratec EWS88D in an AMD Athlon 1700 or something. I had been using the Terratec as the clock source because it's a newer card and I assumed had better drivers, etc. Which it does, for the most part. But to get the System Link to work, I had to set the Korg as the master. Everything worked semi-charmful after that. The computers never showed up in each other's network window. However, the Terratec PC sample locked perfectly to the Korg PC and both machines were perfectly linked and the system worked great even thought they couldn't "see" each other. Maybe they could just "feel" each other something. I was able to get results using either SPDIF or ADAT optical. I prefer to use the SPDIF as the "link" and use the ADAT channels for routing the audio.

I'm still a little hazy on getting the VST instruments to work playing a midi track from one pc and have the VSTi on another. So I just copied the midi track to the VSTi machine and all was well. Not the best way work if you're in composing mode, but for mixing, it works out. I haven't tried the suggestions from other threads about getting VSTi's to work. That's on tomorrow's agenda.

Using the 2nd PC as an effects rack worked beautifully. It took me a while to figure out the routing for that, but it works great. Since effects are what bog down a processor, I've just increased my processing power by at least 50% depending on which machine is doing the effects. The routing goes something like this:

Channel1 on PC1 routed to a monitoring bus (analog outs of the Korg). Effect Send 1 routed to Bus3 (ADAT 1&2 out). Set amount of send to taste.

On PC2, load an effect into slot 1 and set the output to ADAT 3&4 out.

Channel1 on PC2 set to monitor ADAT 1&2 inputs. (audio signal from Effect Send 1 on Channel1/PC1.
Effect Send 1 set to any effect and set to full level.

Channel2 on PC1 set to monitor ADAT 1&2 inputs and routed to the analog outs of the Korg. This channel serves as the effect return from the effect in slot 1 routed to PC2 ADAT 3&4 outs.

I know the manual goes over that process, but it isn't very clear.

Anywho, I just wanted to post this for anybody still having problems getting the VST System Link to work and hopefully give some tips.

 

[Lopp]

Thanks for the info JR.

 

[Steve Fogal]

YEARS LATER!!! It's 2015 now lol ... I bring this up from the dead because there may still be some people who are interested in VST System Link (VSL). Even though many others who use multiple machines have made the move to Ethernet networking with Vienna Ensemble Pro, System Link seems to have become a long lost gem.

I only just started experimenting with it a few years ago. Before that I was using the old school audio/midi sound card networking, which works fantastically but was a lot of work sending individual midi tracks from one machine to the other.

It's only been a couple of years that I've really got to a point of understanding VST System Link much deeper. and especially after all the complication of doing audio/midi sound card networking, I quickly realized that I much favored not sending any midi at all between machines, but record all my midi tracks 'directly' in the dedicated VSTi machine! In addition, avoid the complicated mess of sending FX's & several audio channels back & fourth, and apply all FX's needed for those VSTi's locally in my VSTi machine...just as you would when using just one DAW machine. I only need to send a stereo sub-mix from the VSTi machine, it's so simple now!

It's amazing how much headroom I have now... especially in this day & age (in the year 2015) with using just 2 older Win XP machines! Yep, you heard that right...for me, Win 7 or 8 is not needed, nor is going 64 needed. And although just 2 Win XP machines has so far proven to be all I need to handle any of my song projects to date, and at the systems lowest latency settings, I actually now have 3 Win XP machines connected with VSL. I have to say that 3 machines is not much more complicated to set up once you know how it works and know what you're doing...that is, after having used 2 successfully 1st! I cannot audibly perceive any more latency with 3 machines, than with 2....and this is before even getting into the offset latency compensation settings available. the only way I could detect anything strange at all in the latency department is after having copied a .wav file to my other machines...while playing the 'exact same audio file' in 2 or more machines, you can hear a slight flange effect between them. But if I'm playing individual/different files (and not exact copies), I cannot tell. Just for the sake of being picky, knowing that technically there is some very slight latency taking place (whether I can hear it or not) I'll either use the latency offset settings, or just simply 'nudge' the audio...but I only nudge anything after I've sent my VSTi's stereo sub-mix to a stereo track on my audio machine, lining it up to the grid the closest I can, which is the easier method actually.

The extra kicker...I'm using all 3 machines in the VSL 'ring' network with a simple coaxial s/pdif connection...that is sending the VSL data & sync, along with all audio. Being I'm not taking up extra bandwidth by eliminating sending any midi between machines, and passing just a stereo audio sub-mix from both dedicated VSTi machines in the network, there is plenty of bandwidth to not have to send separate audio & separate VSL data feeds.
Even though just 2 older quad core XP machines gives me enough headroom without running out of resources, using 3 machines provides me with any extra headroom I may need. In fact, it's almost gluttonous having 12 total CPU cores & 12 GB of total RAM between all 3 machines. Yet, I'm very curious about adding a 4th computer into the VSL 'ring' network....which would be a total of 16 CPU cores & 16 GB of RAM.

The only real issues I've found with VSL, whether sending just the VSL data, or VSL data along with stereo audio, and whether using just 2 machines or 3...the VSL connection will occasionally disconnect on me and I'll have to reconnect. This doesn't happen enough to fret over it too much, but still I never know when that will happen. I've been at it long enough to know that I'm doing things correctly, and I'm using the exact same spec machines, with the exact same audio interfaces in each.

I've also discovered that you don't HAVE to complete the VSL 'ring' network for System Link to work (in addition, far less to no disconnection of the VSL network for some reason?), it actually works in one direction...that is, with 3 machines, you can send the VSL data 'out' from PC1, into PC2, from PC2, send VSL data into PC3 and that's it (not sending the VSL data back into PC1). When not completing the 'ring', from operating at PC1, it will control PC2 & PC3..from operating at PC2, it will control PC3 (but not PC1), and PC3 will only operate PC3 (but not PC1 & PC2).
It really all depends on what you want to do though. Say, you want to think of, or use PC1 as the absolute 'master' (though there really is no master when in a 'full' VSL 'ring' network) and say, just control subsequent VSTi PC's, and bring both of their audio feeds back into PC1 via a separate audio lines. But, even though I do have all 3 PC's wired via coaxial in the 'ring' network configuration, many times I don't actually connect the entire ring. Instead I'll just connect PC1 to PC2, or PC2 to PC3, or PC3 to PC1. this depends on what I'm actually working on, where I don't need all machines running on VSL....actually, I seldom run all 3 PC's at once. In fact, most often I only work with just ONE machine at a time, and only sync with VSL when I want to send a stereo sub-feed from a VSTi machine, to an audio machine. This way, I'm only using electricity and creating noise with just a single machine much of the time.
How I personally work is, even though I've been more of an 'audio guy' ... I've become fairly efficient with the use of midi & VSTi's now. I'll start songs with recording midi tracks into my dedicated VSTi machine only turned on, afterwards, I'll sync that up to my audio machine with VSL, sending a temporary stereo VSTi sub-mix to my dedicated audio machine. I'll then work on audio tracks to that temporary VSTi sub-mix. When audio tracks are completed, I'll sync up machines again to work on a better combined mix. I could very well begin all my songs with audio tracks 1st of course.

 

[Btyre2013]

last time I used cubase sx was back in 2003! cheers.