Roland VS-1824CD

[5150 Musician]

I currently use a Roland VS-1824CD for my raw recordings. After that I'm just going to hopefully start using Sonar 3 Producer for mixing down. I will have the optical out of the Roland plugged into the optical in of my Terratec EWS 2496 sound card for playing the track without any loss in quality. I really need to figure out how to play back each track so that they fall in the right time together without having to do too much.

 

[Richard Monroe]

I've got bad news for you, my man. The 1824 *doesn't do that*. You can't *dump* anything anywhere. The backup system is proprietary, and it doesn't export WAV files. It can be done, but *not* "without doing much". First, if it wasn't done when tracking, add about 4 seconds of empty space to the beginning or the end of track 1. Then record a 4 beat or so click track in that empty space. Then do a "track copy" to copy those 4 seconds to every other track. Then export the tracks to the PC in real time by S/PDIF (optical or RCA, it doesn't matter). Then synch the tracks manually in whatever software you are using, in my case, Pro Tools, using the copied click track as a visual guide. You have to move the tracks to the PC 2 at a time, in real time. It took nearly 24 man hours to export the tracks for my first album, about 12 per song, with a total 1 hour running time. Enjoy.-Richie

 

[5150 Musician]

I've got bad news for you, my man. The 1824 *doesn't do that*. You can't *dump* anything anywhere. The backup system is proprietary, and it doesn't export WAV files. It can be done, but *not* "without doing much". First, if it wasn't done when tracking, add about 4 seconds of empty space to the beginning or the end of track 1. Then record a 4 beat or so click track in that empty space. Then do a "track copy" to copy those 4 seconds to every other track. Then export the tracks to the PC in real time by S/PDIF (optical or RCA, it doesn't matter). Then synch the tracks manually in whatever software you are using, in my case, Pro Tools, using the copied click track as a visual guide. You have to move the tracks to the PC 2 at a time, in real time. It took nearly 24 man hours to export the tracks for my first album, about 12 per song, with a total 1 hour running time. Enjoy.-Richie

I see what you mean. However, if your console supports it, you may back up your projects onto CD and resume them with programs such as Logic and Sonar; it's the next best thing to having an actual USB port to transfer the projects to computer.

 

[5150 Musician]

I've got bad news for you, my man. The 1824 *doesn't do that*. You can't *dump* anything anywhere. The backup system is proprietary, and it doesn't export WAV files. It can be done, but *not* "without doing much". First, if it wasn't done when tracking, add about 4 seconds of empty space to the beginning or the end of track 1. Then record a 4 beat or so click track in that empty space. Then do a "track copy" to copy those 4 seconds to every other track. Then export the tracks to the PC in real time by S/PDIF (optical or RCA, it doesn't matter). Then synch the tracks manually in whatever software you are using, in my case, Pro Tools, using the copied click track as a visual guide. You have to move the tracks to the PC 2 at a time, in real time. It took nearly 24 man hours to export the tracks for my first album, about 12 per song, with a total 1 hour running time. Enjoy.-Richie

I see what you mean. However, if your console supports it, I believe you may back up your projects onto CD and resume them with programs such as Logic and Sonar; it's the next best thing to having an actual USB port to transfer the projects to computer. You see, I bought my 1824CD used WITHOUT a manual; so I am discovering things as I go along, until i get the scanned manual transfered to my pc. I just found this out from a friend of mine who owns a recording studio and record label - www.neverstarrecords.com

 

[Richard Monroe]

No, 5150, you can't do it by CD, because.... The Ronand's backup system is proprietary, and only a VS studio can read them. If you burn to audio CD and export, you drop from the Roland's perfectly acceptable 24 bit 96khz sampling rate to the fairly cruddy 16 bit 44.1 khz rate of a commercial CD, degrading your signal considerably. If you record in 44.1 khz, which I do, because it is CD compatible, you still want to keep the 24 bit sampling rate. The other way is to load your CD backup into a VS2480 or VS2000CD, which *will* export WAV files. I have spent quite a bit of time on the road you are travelling right now. 2 tracks at a time, by S/PDIF, is really the only way, if you are trying to produce a commercial quality product.-Richie

 

[5150 Musician]

No, 5150, you can't do it by CD, because.... The Ronand's backup system is proprietary, and only a VS studio can read them. If you burn to audio CD and export, you drop from the Roland's perfectly acceptable 24 bit 96khz sampling rate to the fairly cruddy 16 bit 44.1 khz rate of a commercial CD, degrading your signal considerably. If you record in 44.1 khz, which I do, because it is CD compatible, you still want to keep the 24 bit sampling rate. The other way is to load your CD backup into a VS2480 or VS2000CD, which *will* export WAV files. I have spent quite a bit of time on the road you are travelling right now. 2 tracks at a time, by S/PDIF, is really the only way, if you are trying to produce a commercial quality product.-Richie

Yeah, I hear what you mean now. Thanks a bunch. So when I'm connecting the VS to the PC via S\PDIF, I'm going to have to establish a system at which I can keep the tracks in time with one another. You mentioned something about leaving a space before the track for a time count?

p.s. didint meant to leave 2 posts, i thought i was editing one but instead made a whole new one

 

[Richard Monroe]

First, leave or add a space to track 1. Then use the "track copy" function to copy the little click to every other track. You can delete it later once the tracks are synched. I used the metronome on my Korg Pandora, but 2 taps of some drumsticks together will work fine.-Richie

 

[5150 Musician]

First, leave or add a space to track 1. Then use the "track copy" function to copy the little click to every other track. You can delete it later once the tracks are synched. I used the metronome on my Korg Pandora, but 2 taps of some drumsticks together will work fine.-Richie

So when the count was up you would just hit play on the recorder?
Also, this method works only if every track started recording under a fixed time correct?

 

[Richard Monroe]

I don't think you quite have it. You transfer the whole track, including the click, to the PC. Then you use the peaks of the click, which is at the same point on every track, to visually match all the tracks in the PC. Then erase it, once all the tracks are synched. Synching is done *after* the tracks are in your PC.-Richie

 

[5150 Musician]

MIDI Sync!?

I don't think you quite have it. You transfer the whole track, including the click, to the PC. Then you use the peaks of the click, which is at the same point on every track, to visually match all the tracks in the PC. Then erase it, once all the tracks are synched. Synching is done *after* the tracks are in your PC.-Richie

If you have a PC for mastering and\or recording (with the proper soundcard), can't you just link them via MIDI and set each device to sync to one another? That way, you can use your software program to control the recording consol so that they will both play\record at the same time. Many people use the same idea when using drum machines as well.

 

[Richard Monroe]

I can't tell you for sure that it's impossible, but Roland tech support says it is. I don't know enough about MIDI to guarantee that, but I've been told by the best minds on VSPlanet and Roland tech support that it won't work. You can run, but you can't hide. I believe the way I've told you is the only way it can be done. If you find another that works, let me know. I'm always ready to be re-educated.-Richie

 

[5150 Musician]

I can't tell you for sure that it's impossible, but Roland tech support says it is. I don't know enough about MIDI to guarantee that, but I've been told by the best minds on VSPlanet and Roland tech support that it won't work. You can run, but you can't hide. I believe the way I've told you is the only way it can be done. If you find another that works, let me know. I'm always ready to be re-educated.-Richie

So what you're telling me is Roland has contradicted an entire chapter in their VS-1824CD Model regarding the use of its midi time clock? Maybe this is a misunderstanding, or maybe they made a feature that was false? Logically, if both the software program and the console went by the midi time clock, the play\stop, etc. buttons of the software program would control the VS's program as well, or vise versa (depending on which you have set to be the "master" device). I am not denying that what you stated was false, I was just wondering if maybe you were thinking of something else (or if I didn't state the scenario correctly the first time). Thanks.

 

[Richard Monroe]

No, what I said is- I don't know enough about MIDI to know if it's possible, but Roland tech support and at least two major posters on VSplanet have told me it can't be done. They could very well be wrong, but I have insufficient knowledge base to prove them wrong. We tried it, and with the clocks in synch with the Mac slaved to the Roland as master, we were unable to get the MIDI clock to synch audio data being transferred by S/PDIF. That doesn't mean it can't be done, it means I tried and failed.-Richie

 

[5150 Musician]

No, what I said is- I don't know enough about MIDI to know if it's possible, but Roland tech support and at least two major posters on VSplanet have told me it can't be done. They could very well be wrong, but I have insufficient knowledge base to prove them wrong. We tried it, and with the clocks in synch with the Mac slaved to the Roland as master, we were unable to get the MIDI clock to synch audio data being transferred by S/PDIF. That doesn't mean it can't be done, it means I tried and failed.-Richie

Things like that can be a bit screwy (especially when dealing with PC's), but thanks for telling me what you know about it. I am going to try myself, and if I fail as well, now I'll know not to dig any deeper and just move on with the other, more reliable ways of transferring audio.