hi to those in the land of musical faries,iam doing a master demo album on the 1680ex and plan to get it really well mastered-as we know the 1680ex is not a multi $$$$ studio.along the way iam doing demos to send to rec labels,which basically for the price its a big tool to "experiment" with songs and ideas,and i believe (anyway) that i can do a prety good job,e.g production on the unit.has anybody out there done anything simalar,or any"words of wisdom" to help out a musical damzill in distress.i.e ,can you do a resonably good "album" that sounds"up there" on the 1680ex(after its been mastered extremly well)...thanx
any secrets 4 using vs 1680ex...
- Thread starter drew1
- Start date
Jblount
New member
I own a 1680, My band and i are fixing to record our next album with it, We are going to record on it and send the archived tracks to a studio for a pro mix down. We have experemented with it a lot and we are confident about capturing the tracks, just not on mixing them. The onboard effects are great, if you know how to use them, they are very tricky. thats why we are using actual mic preamps and compressors before sending the signal to the roland. keep us posted on what happens and if you run into specific problems, I also have a friend who has a 1680 and has recorded many major comercial soundtracks, he makes good money, and he uses just the roland, no outboard tools.
LAZI
New member
You're okay with the 1680... Don't let it fool you..,
One thing you might want to do is grab a better preamp or something like a nice mixer because once you turn on the trim on the 1680's pres you are getting crap you just don't need. The pres are usuable but there are so many much better ones that it's not even worth using those.
I've done 3 cd's and working on 4 and five... I'm happy as hell with the sound now that I know how to juice it.
One thing you might want to do is grab a better preamp or something like a nice mixer because once you turn on the trim on the 1680's pres you are getting crap you just don't need. The pres are usuable but there are so many much better ones that it's not even worth using those.
I've done 3 cd's and working on 4 and five... I'm happy as hell with the sound now that I know how to juice it.
Larry Kane
New member
vs1680
Keep in mind that digital gear needs to be at near 0 vu level to utilize all 24 bits. Therfore, using a limiter or compressor BEFORE the machine helps with fidelity, because you can stay near the 0 level without clipping. Digital clipping sounds bad.
Using the built in compression does not accomplish this because you are already inboard by the time you are in the built in compression.
Also if you have not updated the op system to 2.02* or higher you won't be able to use the master room feature which is absolutly great in that it allows you to mix all 16 tracks to a stereo pair of virtual tracks which serves as your master mixdown track. no more having to pre bounce or mix to dat or other gear.
Also regardless of the awfully long time it takes to back up to cd or whatever you use DO IT OFTEN!!!!. I mean DO IT OFTEN, like after each good session. It is much better than losing the data, and these things are finicky. the hard drives occaisionally crash, and Roland no longer offers data recovery for these. trust me on this as I learned the really, really hard way.
LK
One more thing- the roland tech guys tell me that it is benefcial to do a disk de-fragmentation monthly.
Keep in mind that digital gear needs to be at near 0 vu level to utilize all 24 bits. Therfore, using a limiter or compressor BEFORE the machine helps with fidelity, because you can stay near the 0 level without clipping. Digital clipping sounds bad.
Using the built in compression does not accomplish this because you are already inboard by the time you are in the built in compression.
Also if you have not updated the op system to 2.02* or higher you won't be able to use the master room feature which is absolutly great in that it allows you to mix all 16 tracks to a stereo pair of virtual tracks which serves as your master mixdown track. no more having to pre bounce or mix to dat or other gear.
Also regardless of the awfully long time it takes to back up to cd or whatever you use DO IT OFTEN!!!!. I mean DO IT OFTEN, like after each good session. It is much better than losing the data, and these things are finicky. the hard drives occaisionally crash, and Roland no longer offers data recovery for these. trust me on this as I learned the really, really hard way.
LK
One more thing- the roland tech guys tell me that it is benefcial to do a disk de-fragmentation monthly.
Larry Kane
New member
mixdown using mastering room
here is a portion of the manual available at rolandus.com in the documents section.
It requires your unit to run software version 2.02 or higher-you can mail me about how to upgrade if you don't have it. it's free but it takes some patience.
Mix 16 tracks down to 2 tracks
(Mastering Room)
From the 256 V-tracks you can now select any two tracks,
and mixdown to these two tracks as you play back 16 tracks
simultaneously.
Added mastering tracks
Until now, you had to use an external DAT recorder or MD
recorder if you wanted to mixdown a song that used all
sixteen tracks. For example if you wanted to produce an
original audio CD, you needed to first mixdown to an
external recorder (DAT or MD), and then re-record that song
onto the VS-1680.
fig.2-01
Now, ¡°Mastering tracks¡± equivalent to this external recorder
(DAT or MD) are provided on the VS-1680 itself.
fig.2-02
Any two of the 256 V-tracks can be assigned for use as the
mastering tracks. With the factory settings, V-track 16 of
tracks 15/16 (i.e., 15-16 and 16-16) are assigned as the
mastering tracks.
For example, you can play back V-tracks 1-1, 2-1, 3-1...15-1,
and 16-1 (a total of 16 tracks), and record the result on
V-tracks 15-16 and 16-16 (a total of two tracks).
MEMO
When the Recording mode (VS-1680 Owner¡¯s Manual, p. 58)
is set to ¡°MAS (mastering),¡± you can play back V-tracks 1-1,
2-1, 3-1...7-1, and 8-1 (a total of 8 tracks), and record on
V-tracks 7-16 and 8-16 (a total of two tracks). Tracks 9¨C16
cannot be used.
Mixing down to the
mastering tracks
Here¡¯s how to select the mastering tracks, and perform a
mixdown.
NOTE
The operation of playing back 16 tracks while you mixdown to the
mastering tracks (two tracks) is significantly affected by the speed
of the hard disk. For this reason, depending on the structure of the
song data (sampling rate and recording mode, or when punch-in/
out is used frequently, etc.), or depending on the drive that you use,
the display may indicate ¡°Drive Busy,¡± and the operation may not
take place correctly. In order to take full advantage of the
VS-1680¡¯s potential, such as the number of tracks that
can be recorded/played simultaneously, and the
recording capacity, we recommend that you use a hard
disk which capacity is 2.1 GB or more.
1. Press [MASTER].
2. Press [PAGE] so that [F6] indicates ¡°M.Tr,¡± and then
press [F6 (M.Tr)].
fig.2-03
3. Press [ENTER (YES)].
4. Press [ ], [ ], [ ], or [ ] to move the cursor.
Use the TIME/VALUE dial to specify the value for each
parameter.
fig.2-04
TR1
MASTER
DAT
VS-1680
MIX
Sw
MIX
L R
Digital Out
Select
L R
Track 1--16
MD
MASTER OUT
DIGITAL OUT
TR1
MASTER
VS-1680
MIX
Sw
MIX
L R
Digital Out
Select
L R
Track 1--16
MASTER OUT
DIGITAL OUT
TR15-16
TR16-16
Mastering
Track
9
Mix 16 tracks down to 2 tracks (Mastering Room)
Status
Specify the status of the mastering tracks. For this example,
select ¡°Off.¡±
Off: The mastering tracks will not be used.
Rec: Play back tracks 1¨C16 while recording them to the
mastering tracks.
Play: Play back the mastering tracks. The sound of tracks
1¨C16 will not be output from the MASTER jacks.
MEMO
For details on the signal flow (routing) at this time, refer to
Signal flow (routing) (p. 10).
Trk L (track L)
Trk R (track R)
Select the two V-tracks (L and R) that will be assigned as
mastering tracks. When a new song is created, V-track 16 of
tracks 15/16 (15-16, 16-16) will be assigned as the mastering
tracks.
After Rec (after recording)
Specify the time location of the mastering track to which the
mixdown will be recorded. When creating an original audio
CD, it is usually best to select ¡°to ZERO.¡±
to ZERO: Place the data starting at 00h00m00s00f
to last Phrs:0S: Place the data after the end of the last
phrase in the mastering tracks.
to last Phrs:2S: Place the data two seconds after the end of
the last phrase in the mastering tracks.
to last Phrs:4S: Place the data four seconds after the end of
the last phrase in the mastering tracks.
Stay HERE: Place the data at the time location at which
it was actually recorded.
fig.2-05.e
Marker
If this is turned ¡°On,¡± a track number marker will
automatically be assigned to the beginning of the phrase that
is mixed down. Normally you will set this ¡°On.¡±
MEMO
Depending on the After Rec (After Recording) setting or on
the location relative to other markers, the display may
indicate ¡°Can¡¯t Set Marker,¡± and the track number marker
may not be assigned.
5. Hold down [STOP], and press the [STATUS] button for
all tracks (1¨C15/16) that you wish to mixdown. The
STATUS indicators will light green.
fig.2-06
6. Press [FADER] so that the TR (track) indicator lights.
fig.2-07.e
7. Press [PLAY]. The song will play back.
8. Raise and lower the master fader, and verify that the
volume of each track changes.
MEMO
The sound that passes through the master fader will be
recorded on the mastering tracks. In order to record at the
optimal audio quality, you should normally set this to the
0 dB position.
9. Use the channel faders (1¨C15/16) to adjust the volume
balance of each track. At this time the sound that is being
output from the MASTER jacks (volume levels, panning)
will be recorded to the mastering tracks. It is best to set
the volume as high as possible without causing the
volume to distort.
10. When you have finished adjusting the volume, press
[STOP].
11. Move to the location at which you wish to begin the
mixdown (such as 00h00m00s00f).
0 Time
Mixdown
Phrase
Original
Phrase
0 Time 0 Time
0 Time
0 Time
0 Time
to ZERO to LastPhrs:0s to LastPhrs:2s
to LastPhrs:0s Stay HERE
Lit
Dark
10
Mix 16 tracks down to 2 tracks (Mastering Room)
12. Use the cursor buttons and the Value dial to change the
"Status" of the tracks for mastering to ¡°Rec.¡±
13. Press [REC]. The REC indicator will light in red.
14. Press [PLAY]. The PLAY indicator will light in green,
and recording will begin.
15. When you finish recording, press [STOP].
Signal flow (routing)
fig.2-08
Mixdown shortcut 1
The ¡°Status¡± of the assigned mastering tracks/V-tracks can
also be set as follows.
1. Press [MASTER].
2. Press [PAGE] so that [F6] indicates ¡°M.Tr,¡± and then
press [F6 (M.Tr)].
fig.2-03
3. Select the status of the mastering tracks. Make sure that
the cursor is located at ¡°Stat,¡± and then rotate the
TIME/VALUE dial.
fig.2-10
4. Select the V-tracks. Use [ ] or [ ] to move the
cursor to ¡°L:¡± or ¡°R:,¡± and rotate the TIME/VALUE dial.
Mixdown shortcut 2
The ¡°Status¡± of the mastering tracks can also be set as
follows.
1. Press [PLAY (DISPLAY)].
2. Press [PAGE] so that [F6] indicates ¡°M¡ú***¡± (*** is either
Rec, Ply, or Off).
fig.2-11
3. Press [F6] to cycle between ¡°M¡úRec¡± ¡ú ¡°M¡úPlay¡± ¡ú
¡°M¡úOff.¡± The current status of the mastering tracks will
be shown by the level meters in the display.
fig.2-12.e
Playing back the mastering
tracks
Here¡¯s how you can verify the audio that was mixed down to
the mastering tracks. Tracks 1¨C16 will not be played back.
1. Press [PLAY (DISPLAY)].
2. Press [PAGE] so that [F6] indicates ¡°M¡ú***¡± (*** is either
Rec, Ply, or Off).
TR1
MASTER
MIX
Sw
MIX
L R
Track 1--16
TR15-16
TR16-16
Mastering
Track
MASTER OUT
MONITOR OUT
Off Record wait Status Playback Status
Mix 16 tracks down to 2 tracks (Mastering Room)
fig.2-11
3. Press [F6] to cycle between ¡°M¡úRec¡± ¡ú ¡±M¡úPlay¡± ¡ú
¡±M¡úOff.¡± The current status of the mastering tracks can
be viewed in the level meter in the display. For this
example, select ¡°M¡úOff¡± (playback status: pressing [F6]
once again will select Off).
fig.2-12.e
MEMO
For details on the signal flow at this time, refer to Signal flow
(routing) (p. 11).
4. Move to the location at which you started the mixdown.
5. Press [ ] so that you can view the playlist of the
mastering tracks.
fig.2-15
MEMO
If the bottom line of the display is surrounded by a heavy
line, you can also use the TIME/VALUE dial to check the
playlist of the mastering tracks.
6. Press [PLAY]. The mastering tracks will play back. Use
the master fader to adjust the volume to a comfortable
listening level.
At this time, the function buttons will function as follows
(Owner¡¯s Manual, p. 182).
[F1 (ZOOM+)]: Enlarges the playlist display in the track
direction (three levels).
[F2 (ZOOM-)]: Reduces the playlist display in the track
direction (three levels).
[F3 (¡û¡ú)]: Enlarges the playlist display in the time
direction (five levels).
[F4 (¡ú¡û)]: Reduces the playlist display in the time
direction (five levels).
[F5 (WAVE)]: Display the sound level (waveform) that is
recorded in the tracks.
7. When playback ends, press [STOP].
Signal flow (routing)
fig.2-16
Mixing down while inserting
effects
If a separately sold VS8F-2 effect expansion board is
installed, you can insert effects while you mixdown.
MEMO
While performing a mixdown, it is common to insert an
effect such as a parametric equalizer or a compressor. For
this example, we will insert the Mastering Tool Kit (EFX1: a
newly added algorithm; p. 14) to adjust the overall volume
balance as we mixdown.
1. Press [MASTER].
2. Press [PAGE] so that [F6] indicates ¡°M.Tr,¡± and then
press [F6 (M.Tr)].
Off Record wait Status Playback Status
TR1
MASTER
MIX
Sw
MIX
L R
Track 1--16
TR16-16
Mastering
Track
TR15-16 MASTER OUT
MONITOR OUT
here is a portion of the manual available at rolandus.com in the documents section.
It requires your unit to run software version 2.02 or higher-you can mail me about how to upgrade if you don't have it. it's free but it takes some patience.
Mix 16 tracks down to 2 tracks
(Mastering Room)
From the 256 V-tracks you can now select any two tracks,
and mixdown to these two tracks as you play back 16 tracks
simultaneously.
Added mastering tracks
Until now, you had to use an external DAT recorder or MD
recorder if you wanted to mixdown a song that used all
sixteen tracks. For example if you wanted to produce an
original audio CD, you needed to first mixdown to an
external recorder (DAT or MD), and then re-record that song
onto the VS-1680.
fig.2-01
Now, ¡°Mastering tracks¡± equivalent to this external recorder
(DAT or MD) are provided on the VS-1680 itself.
fig.2-02
Any two of the 256 V-tracks can be assigned for use as the
mastering tracks. With the factory settings, V-track 16 of
tracks 15/16 (i.e., 15-16 and 16-16) are assigned as the
mastering tracks.
For example, you can play back V-tracks 1-1, 2-1, 3-1...15-1,
and 16-1 (a total of 16 tracks), and record the result on
V-tracks 15-16 and 16-16 (a total of two tracks).
MEMO
When the Recording mode (VS-1680 Owner¡¯s Manual, p. 58)
is set to ¡°MAS (mastering),¡± you can play back V-tracks 1-1,
2-1, 3-1...7-1, and 8-1 (a total of 8 tracks), and record on
V-tracks 7-16 and 8-16 (a total of two tracks). Tracks 9¨C16
cannot be used.
Mixing down to the
mastering tracks
Here¡¯s how to select the mastering tracks, and perform a
mixdown.
NOTE
The operation of playing back 16 tracks while you mixdown to the
mastering tracks (two tracks) is significantly affected by the speed
of the hard disk. For this reason, depending on the structure of the
song data (sampling rate and recording mode, or when punch-in/
out is used frequently, etc.), or depending on the drive that you use,
the display may indicate ¡°Drive Busy,¡± and the operation may not
take place correctly. In order to take full advantage of the
VS-1680¡¯s potential, such as the number of tracks that
can be recorded/played simultaneously, and the
recording capacity, we recommend that you use a hard
disk which capacity is 2.1 GB or more.
1. Press [MASTER].
2. Press [PAGE] so that [F6] indicates ¡°M.Tr,¡± and then
press [F6 (M.Tr)].
fig.2-03
3. Press [ENTER (YES)].
4. Press [ ], [ ], [ ], or [ ] to move the cursor.
Use the TIME/VALUE dial to specify the value for each
parameter.
fig.2-04
TR1
MASTER
DAT
VS-1680
MIX
Sw
MIX
L R
Digital Out
Select
L R
Track 1--16
MD
MASTER OUT
DIGITAL OUT
TR1
MASTER
VS-1680
MIX
Sw
MIX
L R
Digital Out
Select
L R
Track 1--16
MASTER OUT
DIGITAL OUT
TR15-16
TR16-16
Mastering
Track
9
Mix 16 tracks down to 2 tracks (Mastering Room)
Status
Specify the status of the mastering tracks. For this example,
select ¡°Off.¡±
Off: The mastering tracks will not be used.
Rec: Play back tracks 1¨C16 while recording them to the
mastering tracks.
Play: Play back the mastering tracks. The sound of tracks
1¨C16 will not be output from the MASTER jacks.
MEMO
For details on the signal flow (routing) at this time, refer to
Signal flow (routing) (p. 10).
Trk L (track L)
Trk R (track R)
Select the two V-tracks (L and R) that will be assigned as
mastering tracks. When a new song is created, V-track 16 of
tracks 15/16 (15-16, 16-16) will be assigned as the mastering
tracks.
After Rec (after recording)
Specify the time location of the mastering track to which the
mixdown will be recorded. When creating an original audio
CD, it is usually best to select ¡°to ZERO.¡±
to ZERO: Place the data starting at 00h00m00s00f
to last Phrs:0S: Place the data after the end of the last
phrase in the mastering tracks.
to last Phrs:2S: Place the data two seconds after the end of
the last phrase in the mastering tracks.
to last Phrs:4S: Place the data four seconds after the end of
the last phrase in the mastering tracks.
Stay HERE: Place the data at the time location at which
it was actually recorded.
fig.2-05.e
Marker
If this is turned ¡°On,¡± a track number marker will
automatically be assigned to the beginning of the phrase that
is mixed down. Normally you will set this ¡°On.¡±
MEMO
Depending on the After Rec (After Recording) setting or on
the location relative to other markers, the display may
indicate ¡°Can¡¯t Set Marker,¡± and the track number marker
may not be assigned.
5. Hold down [STOP], and press the [STATUS] button for
all tracks (1¨C15/16) that you wish to mixdown. The
STATUS indicators will light green.
fig.2-06
6. Press [FADER] so that the TR (track) indicator lights.
fig.2-07.e
7. Press [PLAY]. The song will play back.
8. Raise and lower the master fader, and verify that the
volume of each track changes.
MEMO
The sound that passes through the master fader will be
recorded on the mastering tracks. In order to record at the
optimal audio quality, you should normally set this to the
0 dB position.
9. Use the channel faders (1¨C15/16) to adjust the volume
balance of each track. At this time the sound that is being
output from the MASTER jacks (volume levels, panning)
will be recorded to the mastering tracks. It is best to set
the volume as high as possible without causing the
volume to distort.
10. When you have finished adjusting the volume, press
[STOP].
11. Move to the location at which you wish to begin the
mixdown (such as 00h00m00s00f).
0 Time
Mixdown
Phrase
Original
Phrase
0 Time 0 Time
0 Time
0 Time
0 Time
to ZERO to LastPhrs:0s to LastPhrs:2s
to LastPhrs:0s Stay HERE
Lit
Dark
10
Mix 16 tracks down to 2 tracks (Mastering Room)
12. Use the cursor buttons and the Value dial to change the
"Status" of the tracks for mastering to ¡°Rec.¡±
13. Press [REC]. The REC indicator will light in red.
14. Press [PLAY]. The PLAY indicator will light in green,
and recording will begin.
15. When you finish recording, press [STOP].
Signal flow (routing)
fig.2-08
Mixdown shortcut 1
The ¡°Status¡± of the assigned mastering tracks/V-tracks can
also be set as follows.
1. Press [MASTER].
2. Press [PAGE] so that [F6] indicates ¡°M.Tr,¡± and then
press [F6 (M.Tr)].
fig.2-03
3. Select the status of the mastering tracks. Make sure that
the cursor is located at ¡°Stat,¡± and then rotate the
TIME/VALUE dial.
fig.2-10
4. Select the V-tracks. Use [ ] or [ ] to move the
cursor to ¡°L:¡± or ¡°R:,¡± and rotate the TIME/VALUE dial.
Mixdown shortcut 2
The ¡°Status¡± of the mastering tracks can also be set as
follows.
1. Press [PLAY (DISPLAY)].
2. Press [PAGE] so that [F6] indicates ¡°M¡ú***¡± (*** is either
Rec, Ply, or Off).
fig.2-11
3. Press [F6] to cycle between ¡°M¡úRec¡± ¡ú ¡°M¡úPlay¡± ¡ú
¡°M¡úOff.¡± The current status of the mastering tracks will
be shown by the level meters in the display.
fig.2-12.e
Playing back the mastering
tracks
Here¡¯s how you can verify the audio that was mixed down to
the mastering tracks. Tracks 1¨C16 will not be played back.
1. Press [PLAY (DISPLAY)].
2. Press [PAGE] so that [F6] indicates ¡°M¡ú***¡± (*** is either
Rec, Ply, or Off).
TR1
MASTER
MIX
Sw
MIX
L R
Track 1--16
TR15-16
TR16-16
Mastering
Track
MASTER OUT
MONITOR OUT
Off Record wait Status Playback Status
Mix 16 tracks down to 2 tracks (Mastering Room)
fig.2-11
3. Press [F6] to cycle between ¡°M¡úRec¡± ¡ú ¡±M¡úPlay¡± ¡ú
¡±M¡úOff.¡± The current status of the mastering tracks can
be viewed in the level meter in the display. For this
example, select ¡°M¡úOff¡± (playback status: pressing [F6]
once again will select Off).
fig.2-12.e
MEMO
For details on the signal flow at this time, refer to Signal flow
(routing) (p. 11).
4. Move to the location at which you started the mixdown.
5. Press [ ] so that you can view the playlist of the
mastering tracks.
fig.2-15
MEMO
If the bottom line of the display is surrounded by a heavy
line, you can also use the TIME/VALUE dial to check the
playlist of the mastering tracks.
6. Press [PLAY]. The mastering tracks will play back. Use
the master fader to adjust the volume to a comfortable
listening level.
At this time, the function buttons will function as follows
(Owner¡¯s Manual, p. 182).
[F1 (ZOOM+)]: Enlarges the playlist display in the track
direction (three levels).
[F2 (ZOOM-)]: Reduces the playlist display in the track
direction (three levels).
[F3 (¡û¡ú)]: Enlarges the playlist display in the time
direction (five levels).
[F4 (¡ú¡û)]: Reduces the playlist display in the time
direction (five levels).
[F5 (WAVE)]: Display the sound level (waveform) that is
recorded in the tracks.
7. When playback ends, press [STOP].
Signal flow (routing)
fig.2-16
Mixing down while inserting
effects
If a separately sold VS8F-2 effect expansion board is
installed, you can insert effects while you mixdown.
MEMO
While performing a mixdown, it is common to insert an
effect such as a parametric equalizer or a compressor. For
this example, we will insert the Mastering Tool Kit (EFX1: a
newly added algorithm; p. 14) to adjust the overall volume
balance as we mixdown.
1. Press [MASTER].
2. Press [PAGE] so that [F6] indicates ¡°M.Tr,¡± and then
press [F6 (M.Tr)].
Off Record wait Status Playback Status
TR1
MASTER
MIX
Sw
MIX
L R
Track 1--16
TR16-16
Mastering
Track
TR15-16 MASTER OUT
MONITOR OUT
Practise. The more you use it, the better you'll get. Write down procedures in your own words. This will help with memory retention. It is amazing how more efficiently you can work on these machines if you know them inside out. That lets you concentrate on the performances rather than the recording.
Best tip I could offer.
Best tip I could offer.