Should I buy Mbox Mini w/PT10 OR Mbox w/Express?

[adrianbnd]

I would like some help purchasing an audio interface and software.

These are my two options:
$460 Mbox Mini with Pro Tools 10
OR
$410 Mbox (bigger) with Pro Tools Express

I'm only 16 and I won't be maxing out on all of the features I guess, even though I'm fairly good with the software. I guess the other option is an Mbox with PT10 which is $675. Although it does seem a bit pricey for me as I also need to buy an external hard drive for my iMac and a midi keyboard controller.

So basically ive tried to suss it out and the benefits of having PT10 is that there are more virtual instruments, and more capabilities of multi track recording. The benefits of having a bigger Mbox is that there are more inputs, and more on board buttons on the box itself (although i wont be needing a midi i/o or that other yellow cable i/o.)

I play guitar and sing. I have a electric and acoustic guitar and a Rode NT-1A microphone. I won't be recording more than a guitar and vocal track at the same time. The midi keyboard will be usb so it'll plug right into my Mac and im guessing go straight into PT?

I keep changing my mind over which one to purchase. Any suggestions are welcome. I really can't decide as choosing either has its slight benefits and negatives.

Thank you

 

[Steenamaroo]

Are you insistent upon using Protools?
Unless you are very comfortable with it I'd look at another software suite,
and to be honest, even then I'd think about jumping ship.

You can get reaper for $60 and a decent audio interface for much less than AVID are looking.
Maybe a presonus audiobox?

That's about $220 all in.


EDIT:
I am a Protools user incase you think I'm a hater or something.
Welcome to the jungle.

 

[adrianbnd]

Are you insistent upon using Protools?
Unless you are very comfortable with it I'd look at another software suite,
and to be honest, even then I'd think about jumping ship.

I am still in high school and our music industry class has Protools on all of the systems so it is helpful in that sense.
I have been looking at universities and noticed that they also use Protools.

I've used Cubase LE4 before in my home and had a ZOOM interface but I recently purchased a 64-bit iMac which the ZOOM does not support. So that device is in the can.

There is this massive music store in Australia that is closing down and they have some good discounts happening.
If you have a look at the website (GOOGLE - Allans Billy Hyde) (I can't post links yet) and can find something else worth my while, I'd be happy to take a look at it! Thanks!

If I go for either of those devices I posted in the first post, I am not sure which is the better option for me.
I either get a better version of Protools or a better Mbox.

If I get Protools express and decide to upgrade later on to say Protools 11 when it is released, there will be a cost.
If I get an Mbox mini and decide to upgrade later to a bigger Mbox or even get a different device/brand all together, there will also be a cost.

I make youtube guitar and vocal covers. I doubt I'll be making massive tracks or anything.

I got this reply on another forum "Also, the Mini uses USB 1.1, which requires that when you want to track with low latency, you use the mix knob, mixing your dry signal with what's already recorded. This is not ideal, and you will not be able to track with plugins this way (such as hearing a reverb as you record your voice) because it will not allow you to go down to a low enough buffer (hence the mix knob). The regular Mbox being USB 2.0, will allow you to record at a buffer of 64, allowing you to track with plugins if you desire."

I don't really get what that means. But I would like to record vocals with effects while listening my voice through headphones at the same time.

I cannot decide! It's so difficult! And the music store is running out of stock fast so I have to get in quick!

All your help is greatly appreciated! Thank you heaps.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I have been looking at universities and noticed that they also use Protools.

Fair enough. That's how I got suckered in!

I got this reply on another forum "Also, the Mini uses USB 1.1, which requires that when you want to track with low latency, you use the mix knob, mixing your dry signal with what's already recorded. This is not ideal, and you will not be able to track with plugins this way (such as hearing a reverb as you record your voice) because it will not allow you to go down to a low enough buffer (hence the mix knob). The regular Mbox being USB 2.0, will allow you to record at a buffer of 64, allowing you to track with plugins if you desire."

I can explain this if you like.
When recording there will always be a slight delay, whether noticeable or not.
This is because audio goes in, gets converted, get's stored, get's read, get's converted, then is played back.
Even if it's a few ms, there will be a delay.

The buffer size directly relates to the length of the delay.
Think of the audio being brought to the computer in packets, rather than a continuous stream.
The bigger the packet, the longer you have to wait for it to be processed.
Three seconds worth of audio per packet = at least three seconds of delay before you hear it.
Buffer=packet.

A smaller buffer makes the computer do more frequent calculations, and therefore strains it more.
A computer with low processing power may not be able to record with a buffer setting of 32 or 64, but most modern computers will, for a handful of tracks at least.
The more tracks you have, the more likely it is you'll have to jack up the buffer setting for stability.


The mix knob you talked about defeats latency.
The idea is that you crank the buffer up so you don't have to worry about stability.
The mix knob allows you to hear the audio before it gets to the computer, as if your interface was an analog mixer.

Any pre recorded material will still play back with slight latency, and your recorded vocal will have latency on top of that, so technically you create an increasing discrepancy the more you record using pre recorded tracks as your queue.
That said, It's minimal (If I've even got my head around that correctly).

In this setup you'd just mute the software track that you're recording to so that the mix knob is a mixer between pre recorded audio and incoming audio. You don't want to hear two copies of the recording with a delay between them!
You use the mix knob to get a suitable blend between backing and incoming.
Because you're monitoring incoming vocals pre-computer, you won't be able to hear any software effects that you might have, while you're recording.


Apart from that, I'm not really up to speed on ProTools pricing.

I bought an mbox 2 with PT8 for £150, then registered the software.
Since it had never been registered before, I qualified for immediate, free amnesty upgrades to the latest version of PT, as if I'd just bought it from a store.

Hope that's all useful.

 

[adrianbnd]

I can explain this if you like.

Thanks! I completely undestand it now, good explaining

Because of what you just said I think I have decided on getting the Mbox (regular size) with Pro Tools Express.

Ive been doing so much research and i know Pro Tools Express has it's limitations but I don't think I will ever go past those limitations, like number of tracks (I won't be recording many instruments)

I don't think I'll ever need a bigger Mbox audio interface, and if i ever do upgrade the software, I'll just wait till Pro Tools 11 or even 12 comes out.

Thanks a lot for the help!

 

[Steenamaroo]

Glad to have helped.

I'm not that familiar with PT express, so I just googled it.

I doesn't seem all that limited really, but be sure to have an in-depth google first....Seriously.

I heard nothing but bad things about ProTools SE.

That could mean that the target user isn't that well equipped to use the software, or it could mean the software sucks.
I honestly don't know which.

Either way, get some first hand opinions from forums and the like, and be 100% certain that it's compatible with your setup.
PT can be picky.

 

[Blues_N_Cues]

Glad to have helped.

I'm not that familiar with PT express, so I just googled it.

I doesn't seem all that limited really, but be sure to have an in-depth google first....Seriously.

I heard nothing but bad things about ProTools SE.

That could mean that the target user isn't that well equipped to use the software, or it could mean the software sucks.
I honestly don't know which.

Either way, get some first hand opinions from forums and the like, and be 100% certain that it's compatible with your setup.
PT can be picky.

the worst things I've read about SE in my opinion,other than the bugs & stuff is that it isn't upgradeable.
as far as pro tools in general- you have to use proprietary vst's.
But,in the industry you have to know pro tools.
I like my mixcraft for the feature of each individual track you can take a picture of whatever insturment you used for that track,say a .jpg of a certain les paul & amp & that is the avatar for the track or a picture of who may have sang on a certain track.