how do you export your recording to a wav or on to a cd?

file => bounce to disk

If you are working in 24 Bit you should place a dither plug-in on the master track and then bounce to 16 Bit 44.1 .wav file. This is suitable for a CD.

If you plan on mastering it elsewhere then you should not down convert first.
 
you should do this even if you are working in 16 bit too

Why would you add a dither plug-in if you are working in 16 bit and bouncing to 16 bit? The purpose of dither is to fill in the holes that are created when downsampling, right? So, there are no holes if you go from 16 to 16, right?
 
An engineer laughed at me recently about dithering, I didn't have the info to know how to debate the point, so I ran with his method.

He bounces out the 24 bit file, and imports it into wavelab. Adds whatever plugins to further process the 2 channel 24bit mix, and then wavelab burns the 24bit file to a cd that is playable. I'm guessing the dithering takes place during the burn process?

I'm yet to get wavelab, but i've been creating 24bit sessions in PT, so when I mix the final takes [at another studio] I have the 24 bit files to use. But so I can give the guys in the band a cd that is playable, i just change the bounce out to 16 bit, even though the session is 24 bit. My ears can't notice a difference, but its just so the guys have something to take home and listen to.

As i said, when I do the final mix the 24bit wav files get bounced [in a mixing studio]to a 2 channel mix then burned through wavelab. I haven't used dithering in my 5 years of recording.

Though your question has been answered, i just wanted to elaborate on the dithering comment =D
 
Why would you add a dither plug-in if you are working in 16 bit and bouncing to 16 bit? The purpose of dither is to fill in the holes that are created when downsampling, right? So, there are no holes if you go from 16 to 16, right?

even though you are working with a 16 bit session and 16 bit files, Pro Tools LE/TDM utilizes 24 bit audio I/O paths as well as 32 floating point processing and mixing for LE (TDM uses 48 bit). Also, plugins may be doing their processing at higher bit depths.
 
An engineer laughed at me recently about dithering, I didn't have the info to know how to debate the point, so I ran with his method.

what was his comment?

I'm not familiar with wavelab, so I can't comment on how it works...but it's gotta be converting to 16 bit at some point. And if you're burning directly from it, I wouldn't doubt if it's doing some dithering process for you.

there's a recent thread around here debating whether or not you can hear dither or the difference it makes.
 
there's a recent thread around here debating whether or not you can hear dither or the difference it makes.

I think i'll stay outta that thread! I can't hear it when I burn the guys demos for practice at home, but in saying that; I'm not taking any chances with final mixes.

He asked me why I would use the PT dithering algorithm when wavelabs is superior. Just found out some info on it;

We must mention the dithering options which include WaveLab's dithering algorithm and Apogee's highly-acclaimed UV22. You'd use these if you need to change the sample rate before burning a CD.

Burn, baby, burn

One of WaveLab's main features is CD burning. It supports full Red Book CD (audio CDs) burning with CD text, and Mixed Mode, ISO image, cue sheets, and on-the-fly burning. It has a CD label editor and you could well use it for copying CDs although its strength lies in the range of options it offers for creating and compiling individual tracks into a CD.

It supports all the esoteric CD codes (if you have to ask you probably won't want to use them - and you don't have to) and the highly-regarded ability to set the inter-track gap which is a doddle to use.

The program supports a wide range of CD-R recorders and it's a good idea to check the Steinberg web site to make sure yours is supported before buying the program

from http://www.cix.co.uk/~davedorn/reviews/soft/leisure/wavelab4.htm

It appears wavelab uses Apogee's UV22 dithering algorithm. [yea i thought "so what" as well]

At the end of the day, I don't do final mixes at home. I track everything [at my place] and have it mixed elsewhere. I'll leave the dithering debate to the audiophiles, i'm a musician with enough info about engineering to get me through, for everything else I use an experienced engineer. It depends if we're talking about whether dithering matters at home or in the studio here, i'm talking about at home.

Steering off topic [i think the initial poster just wanted to burn cds to give to his friends etc, not do a final mix for release] but...

Try both and do a test for yourself. Bounce your 24bit session down to 16bit with/without dithering and post up the results!
 
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I think i'll stay outta that thread! I can't hear it when I burn the guys demos for practice at home, but in saying that; I'm not taking any chances with final mixes.

He asked me why I would use the PT dithering algorithm when wavelabs is superior. Just found out some info on it;

yeah, I saw that link too when looking for whether or not Wavelab dithers automatically (of course, I don't know how much I can trust a link that says "you dither anytime you perform a sample rate conversion")
lol


which dither alogrithm you use is subjective. people like to spout off "such and such dither is soooo much better" but really all that matters is you understand the science/theory behind what dither is doing. In the debate on the other pages one poster said there is no way anyone could listen blindly to a bunch of songs and say exactly which dither algorithm was used. Wavelab uses UV22 as it's default. Pro Tools uses POW-r. Awesome. Who cares? They both are popular choices and used by tons of DAWs. You could even buy tons of plugins just to get different flavor of dithering. But in the end, just set it on the master fader and forget about it. There are probably a million other things that are more important.

If you really want a listening test, check this one out:
http://www.24-96.net/dither/blind_shootout.htm
 
Whilst I know this should probably be in a new thread, I’ll reply anyway;

yup

Create a mix in Pro Tools and apply all my fx; reverb, delay, pitch correction, compression inserts etc, then bounce that out in a 24bit stereo wav file. Then in wave lab I process the stereo file with multi band compression and what ever other plug ins suit the track. Then that gets bounced and burnt in one step. Alternatively I can bounce to a 16 bit wav [see above about dithering algorithm] ready to be burned, which again I would do through wave lab if I were making a cd with more than 1 track to create my master.

You can hear the results for yourself

http://sharebee.com/6dc17d45

is an acoustic song [320 mp3]

www.myspace.com/heavyrainproductions

is a hip hop track [192 mp3]

I know it would be better to hear the wav files, but honestly the mp3s capture a high percentage of the mix. I'll post up the 50 mb wav files if you really want though.

Both done by the same process. Still working some things out I can do better. Not looking to validate my method, but I don’t believe in talking about methods and not providing any evidence of what came of it. Feel free to criticize, that’s why we’re all here I imagine.


NB: If it isn't a final mix and just for the band to practice to, I would just bounce out of pro tools 16 bit.
 
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what am I listening for between the two?

it's hard because I don't like rap but the first song was good.

the first song should have a better quality correct?

maybe you can put up another song that isn't rap
 
nah sorry maybe i said it wrong.

You asked me the process I go through, and I wanted to give you an example of it. I'm yet to make a song that makes people go "wow you're lying, you didn't make that". Thats the aim.

Two songs in two different genres with different sonic qualities done by the same mixing process.I guess you'd have to a/b it with commericial music, and see if the vibe of the mix stacks up. No idea how else you could compare it.

Personally rap isn't a genre I listen to when i'm in my car, but I get bored working with the same clientel over and over again.

got any links to your stuff?
 
Ah the dither question....again.

I'm just a musician who's dabbling in production but my impression was that you should only apply dither at the end of all processing. So if I should apply the dither plug even on a 16bit mixdown file, is that still true if I master somewhere else or in my case with stand alone mastering software?

Actually I'm trying, unsuccessfully so far, to get the Massey L2007 demo installed so that I can master in PT. That would solve the problem/question for me at least. Oh and if I'm able to get the L2007, is it correct that I would use the dither plug in the same bus behind the L2007 when I bounce to disk?


Rusty K
 
Thanks to some help on other threads I think I've answered my own question here. I do still have some "mastering" questions which I will post in that forum.

Rusty K
 
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