Digital to analog Mixdown???

L

little z

New member
Hello !!!
I have the Fostex FD-8 and I wish to make a better mixdown than I have previously come out with. I want to try to get the most out of putting my music onto cassette tape. Anyway, here it is........ Say I mixdown onto a Hi-Fi Stereo VHS tape, then from there I go onto cassette tape. Is this going to give me a better outcome than if I just went directly onto cassette? I understand the generation loss factor. I also like the idea of having compression added by using the VHS method, so I have read. I am on a limited budget and minimal amount of gear, so I really want to maximize my recording and mixing potential. I also want to know if going from VHS tape to CD-R is a good thing, being that I don't have a compressor. But I think I will remain with cassette tape for some time, due to small funds! If there is ANY other information you can give me, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you guys sooooo much, see ya later!!!!!!!
Little Z
 
Mix directly to the cassette. Going to a VHS tape first is just going to introduce some generation loss.
 
I did this very thing...

...back in my 4-track days.

Sorry to have to disagree with Track Rat here, but you WILL get a better results mixing to VHS and copying final mixes to cassette afterward than you would mixing directly to cassette. Yes, you lose a generation, but THAT loss is smaller than the loss of fidelity inherent by going to cassette in the first place, so even WITH the gen loss, you're ahead. This, of course, is only if you use a good HI-FI VCR... (one that doesn't automatically compress the signal.)

Way back, I had this AMAZING Sony unit - meters, level controls, cost me a grand back then, but it did sound good.

Bruce
 
Well, if you mix to VHS, and use that VHS to make casette copies, it makes sense. But then you do not loose any more generations than if you mix to a casette, and then use that casette to make copies.
 
Except that a good HiFi VHS will far outperform the fidelity of ANY cassette player... so it makes more sense to mix-down to the highest fidelity medium you have at your disposal anyways!

Bruce
 
Thanks ALL you guys!!!!

Well, as always, I appreciate the help offered me here and will continue to look to the H.R. BBS site for new and better ways to make music all it can be, quality-wise!!! And to Blue Bear Sound, I don't have a real pricey VCR, although it is a 4-Head, HI-FI Stereo model, and I was just wondering if that is Ok? It's a Sharp brand VCR and so far, has performed well. At least in the conventional ways. What model would you suggest I get if I were to need to upgrade mine to a little better one? I do know that spending too much on a VCR would not be smart when I could go for a DAT, I guess. But still, the purpose here is frugality, (is that a word???)
Any other mixdown media you guys might suggest would be considered, be there any that would be er a step up or just a good method, ya know, not too, too pricy, but worth givin' a go!!! Again, thanks to all of you and I'll see yall later!!!!!!!!!!
Little Z
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Except that a good HiFi VHS will far outperform the fidelity of ANY cassette player... so it makes more sense to mix-down to the highest fidelity medium you have at your disposal anyways!
Click to expand...

Not if you are then copying it to casette, and from that casette make new copies. The only thing you have done then is add one copy generation.


Hmm. Haven't we had this discussion before, like last year or so?

Other mixdown media that is worth considering is aPC with a descent soundcard. Will give you the same fidelity as a cassette at least...
 
And as I pointed out in my first response Reg, the generation loss will be smaller than the fidelity lost by mixing to cassette directly in the first placed.

Sorry Reg, disagree if you like, but this is direct experience talking - I was doing exactly this about 10 years ago, trying to find the best fidelity out of limited resources. Mixing direct to cassette was MUCH poorer than mixing to VHS, then copying to cassette.... and I was using good cassette decks...

And yes, I beleive this came up before, with me saying the exact same thing! ;)

Bruce
:D
 
But the fidelity you loose when you mix to casette is also lost when you COPY to casette.

Sorry, Bruce, you are wrong. Mixing to VHS and then copying that to cassette will NOT sound better than mixing directly to cassette, unless the VHS actually does something nice to the sound, like compression or something. Assuming this isn't happening, all you get is an extra generation loss.

If you have 50 apples, and the remove one apple, and then remove 5 apples, you will NOT have more apples than if you first have 50 apples, and then remove 5 apples. In fact, you will have less.


So, little z, mix to VHS, and then from the VHS make the cassette copies you need.
 
Little z,

Why don't you try both and then decide which you think makes the better master and subsequently the higher quality copies. The waste of a tape or two might save you some time and give you some insight...and most importantly, experience.

And of course, share your results.
 
Incidentally...I think both regebro and Bruce are giving the same advice even if they are doing their best to disagree. That is, mixdown to VHS, which will give you a higher quality master from which to make copies from, and make your cassette copies from that as opposed to mixing to a cassette and making copies.

In the mixdown-to-cassette case, you lose more sound quality in the mixdown, but the quality lost in copying is more or less equivalent. So your total loss is minimized with the first option, where you lose less sound quality in the mixdown and roughly the same amount in copying.

I mean, there is no generation loss until an actual copy is made, right? Whatever medium you mixdown to, generation loss (avoidable loss anyway, assuming you HAVE to mixdown) is not introduced until that final mix is copied. And real generation loss isn't introduced until a copy of a copy is made. Right?

Anyway, I have to ask. Is my use of the word "master" in the first paragraph correct? Call me on that or anything else that is inaccurate.
 
Bravo, Gritzy, Bravo!!!!!

Very well spoken, if I might say! I think you have the right idea, as well as an uderstanding of the situation. Not saying that Regebro or Bruce don't, you just put it in a way that seemed very much to the point without trying to grapple with the issues of others or their unique opinions!!! Thanks to you all, really!!!!!!!
Little Z
 
I guess that means that "So, little z, mix to VHS, and then from the VHS make the cassette copies you need" isn't to the point. ;)
 
Yaaaaay!!!!!!!

Thanks!!!!!!!
I appreciate all the help you guys have given me, but I have just one last question....As you all know I use the Fostex FD-8 and need to know how much wood would a wood-chuck chuck, if a wood-chuck would chuck wood?
I know you will be able to help me out with this quandry...... As always, Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Little Z
 
I've tried several times to post a reply. This is the last.
It's also about 70 words shorter.
Remember that most VCRs have built-in record levels.
That means hiss during quiet parts and Chaos during suddenly loud parts.
I recommend looking into professional facilities for final mastering.
It's good to make anolog copies because computers are VERY UNRELIABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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