Select all "top-level" folders

VomitHatSteve

Hat STYLE. Not contents.
So here's the scenario: I have a complicated project with lots of folders and subfolders and routing
e.g.
reaper1.png
I want to turn everything down, but for various reasons, I don't want to touch the master bus. I also don't want to "select-all" and then turn down all the tracks at once because some tracks would get turned down multiple times. (i.e. if I turned all the tracks down by 2 DB, "track" would ultimately be 6DB quieter*)

What I'd like to do is only turn down the tracks and folders that route directly to the master bus.

Is there a way to only select those tracks? e.g. Folder1, Folder 2, and notafolder
reaper2.png
I checked the action list but didn't see anything promising.

* I think? I'm bad at DB math.
 
I've had occasion to do this.

In the past, I would manually select each top level folder, then drag the levels down all together.

More recently, though, I just create a new top level folder under which all the other folders go, then just turn the fader of this one up or down.

I've found this more than useful. For example I might have a folder for guitars, for kit, for synths and so on. I just stick new folder called 'band' over the top of them all. This comes in handy if I want to use side-chaining compression ro whatever.
 
I'm not much of a pro at using the SWS custom action stuff, but some of those things are just awesome. And there's one that does just what you want (as far as I can tell).

Go here: SWS / S&M Extension and download and install the SWS package.

Once it's installed, go to actions->show action list and in the filter, type "select all folder start tracks". Although that might select all folders, since it'll select all tracks that are marked as "folder start", whether they contain other folders or not. Try "select all folders (parents only)" and see if that does what you want. If you find an action that does what you want, you can add it to a menu, a context menu, or a toolbar, or create a keyboard shortcut for it. Pretty cool stuff.
 
I'm not much of a pro at using the SWS custom action stuff, but some of those things are just awesome. And there's one that does just what you want (as far as I can tell).

Go here: SWS / S&M Extension and download and install the SWS package.

Once it's installed, go to actions->show action list and in the filter, type "select all folder start tracks". Although that might select all folders, since it'll select all tracks that are marked as "folder start", whether they contain other folders or not. Try "select all folders (parents only)" and see if that does what you want. If you find an action that does what you want, you can add it to a menu, a context menu, or a toolbar, or create a keyboard shortcut for it. Pretty cool stuff.


Oh cool! Thank you.
 
Try "select all folders (parents only)"

That did it except for the standalone non-folder tracks (notafolder in the e.g.)
Select all non-folders gets all the non-folder tracks.

I might have to look into reascript to combine them...
 
That did it except for the standalone non-folder tracks (notafolder in the e.g.)
Select all non-folders gets all the non-folder tracks.

I might have to look into reascript to combine them...

Or just put the non-folder tracks into their own folder call 'non-folder tracks'.
 
I tried fooling with this last night, but I didn't have any luck. I haven't done much with the custom actions, so I might be missing something.

I created a dummy project with some folders with children, and a track that had no folder parent. I created a new custom action through the custom action menu. It's super easy, I just dragged and dropped both the "select all folders (parents only)" and the "select all non-folder tracks" from the actions list into my new custom action. Added it to the track window context menu. But when I selected it, it didn't do anything. I'll have to fiddle with it more, since this kind of thing could be really powerful if I can get it to work.
 
I'm with gecko in that it's just a heck of a lot easier to have a "sub master" track to which all the other top-level tracks are routed on the way to the Master. This way you don't have to worry about any of the selection issues, and more importantly don't have to worry about any Post-Fader sends which would otherwise get thrown out of whack when changing individual track faders.

It's important to remember in this case, though, that the pan law you've set is going to affect the overall level of that folder same as all other tracks. That is, since this track is most certainly going to be panned center, if pan law is say -3db, the output of this track will hit the master 3db down from where it would hit without the intermediary sub-master track. 0db pan law won't do that, and neither will the "gain compensated" options which actually boost as you pan away from center. I leave mine at 0db for everything, but if you're using something else, you might want to at least override the sub-master's pan law at the track level to avoid WTFs.

Course, I almost always have ReaEQ as the first plug on my Master track. Since it is completely linear as far as amplitude goes, I can just adjust its output level to have the same effect.

Also, I think this is what that whole VCA system is supposed to help you do, but I've never messed with it.
 
I'm with gecko in that it's just a heck of a lot easier to have a "sub master" track to which all the other top-level tracks are routed on the way to the Master. This way you don't have to worry about any of the selection issues, and more importantly don't have to worry about any Post-Fader sends which would otherwise get thrown out of whack when changing individual track faders.

The main problem with that technique for me is that if one of the folders* needs to be louder but doesn't have enough head room, I can't do much about it. Selecting all the other folders lets me turn them down to get that head room back.

* drums or lead vox. It's always drums or lead vox.
 
Because, ya know, turning up the one track and then turning down the sub-master works the same as turning down all the other tracks.

If your vocal fader is already all the way up, and it's still not loud enough, then go crank up the output gain on the last plug in its chain or drop something on there to add some gain. That'll buy you some room on the fader.

At some point when I was new to Reaper, I set my faders to top out at +9db. It's usually plenty for the actual Volume faders, but it also limits like everything else! All the volume/gain envelopes, the output levels on all the ReaPlugs, even the gain of individual bands in ReaEQ! It's an important reminder to always try subtractive mixing first, and it only really bothers me when I'm doing really stupid things on purpose to make horrible things happen, but...

But really I'm just giving options. If things are really getting hot, I do prefer to actually turn all the tracks down. I usually just hunt through Ctrl-clicking each track until I've got everything. I would love to have a script that would do it for me, but then I'd have to try to remember how to run that script every time...

I personally don't have much use for the VCA system because it's very rare that I need any such "permanent" groupings that couldn't be handled about as well with a bus track (folder or whatever). I think it actually works well when you've got a lot of intricate interactions happening, but I honestly just haven't found the need to spend the time to figure out what the fuck it does.

Luckily, though, it's all pretty much relative until it hits the DAC or gets rendered to fixed-point. You get to decide where 0 is. You might do that by sticking in a plugin that sets a ceiling, but that's still your decision, and frankly that plugin's ceiling only kind of applies to itself. You can do as you please with whatever comes out. If you're careful and have a clue, you can run all of your track meters so that they're always red, then just turn it down at the sub-master and it'll sound exactly the same as if you'd run "sane" levels all the way.
 
It's an important reminder to always try subtractive mixing first

This and starting the mix with gains set for optimum flexibility pretty much eliminates the problem for me. Instead of turning up what you can't hear try to figure out what's stepping on what you can't hear and turn that down. In the DAW I use the faders go to +12, but if I'm going over +6 there's probably a better way to get that gain, and if the main meter is peaking over -12dBFS then things need to be lowered rather than raised.
 
ashcat said:
By headroom you mean you've got that folder's fader all the way up, but you still need more?
More that the folder is just shy of clipping, so if I turn it up any more it will start distorting.

This and starting the mix with gains set for optimum flexibility pretty much eliminates the problem for me. Instead of turning up what you can't hear try to figure out what's stepping on what you can't hear and turn that down. In the DAW I use the faders go to +12, but if I'm going over +6 there's probably a better way to get that gain, and if the main meter is peaking over -12dBFS then things need to be lowered rather than raised.

Right, that's the goal. Only, since the bus involved is the drums (i.e. all the frequencies), and I like the relative mix of everything else; in order to not break those levels, everything needs to come down.
 
More that the folder is just shy of clipping, so if I turn it up any more it will start distorting.
But that's part of my point. Unless you've put something on that track that will clip, it won't. It won't distort. Nothing happens except that red light turns on. You can turn it up all you want and then just turn the whole thing down somewhere before your master chain and no harm done.
 
If it's clipping you're trying to avoid just pull the master fader down 18dB. If it's fader travel you're running out of you should be able to finagle the track gain and the thresholds on any dynamics to get what you need on a given channel.
 
But that's part of my point. Unless you've put something on that track that will clip, it won't. It won't distort. Nothing happens except that red light turns on. You can turn it up all you want and then just turn the whole thing down somewhere before your master chain and no harm done.

Really? That's a weird feature.

I guess in that case, it's just a UI preference that I don't want that red light turning on! :D
 
Really? That's a weird feature.
Yes really! Is this news? Part of the fun of a floating-point mix engine is the fact that it will very happilyt work with signals greater than 0dbfs. Even at 32 bit, you can literally get billions of times as loud as your converters will go without adding any distortion at all. You literally don't have to worry about those red lights at all until and unless you want it to come out your speakers or render it to a fixed point file.

I guess in that case, it's just a UI preference that I don't want that red light turning on! :D
Yeah, I'm being a bit cavelier, but it is a good idea to keep those levels reasonable unless you have a really good reason to go beyond. I sometimes use Realer and various plugs almost like a modular circuit emulation, and sometimes want to work with "real voltage" numbers. Since 0dbfs = +/-1, that only gives me 2 V peak-to-peak. Guitar pedals swing more like 8 (+/-4), line level gear will go to 26, and tube stuff gets up toward 500 sometimes! Reaper's meters are kind of moot by that point.

You're probably not doing those things. For general mixing it's easier to keep the levels down partly just so that meters do actually mean something, partly so you don't have to fuck around with the master (or a submaster) bus, and so that we don't have to worry about any analog-emulated plugs we put in the chain. I kind of dont trust those fancy plugs that look like real gear (except amp sims I'm the opposite for some reason), but I often do my own thing to set a limit on a track or folder. I've never been one to be afraid of a red light, and I actually expect the bus to start to crunch if I push it hard. Anyway, in these cases, 0dbfs is literally as loud as the thing goes, and if the emulation is accurate, most analog gear starts to distort well before it hits the rails.

These are the decisions we make. If you're balls-deep in a complex mix with hundreds of tracks that all need to get turned down a little, it's easiest just to throw them in a folder and turn that down. Then you try to kind of remember and on your next mix try a little harder not to put yourself in that predicament. :)
 
Yes really! Is this news? Part of the fun of a floating-point mix engine is the fact that it will very happilyt work with signals greater than 0dbfs. Even at 32 bit, you can literally get billions of times as loud as your converters will go without adding any distortion at all. You literally don't have to worry about those red lights at all until and unless you want it to come out your speakers or render it to a fixed point file.
I definitely follow the math of it; it had just never occurred to me that they would implement it that way.
These are the decisions we make. If you're balls-deep in a complex mix with hundreds of tracks that all need to get turned down a little, it's easiest just to throw them in a folder and turn that down. Then you try to kind of remember and on your next mix try a little harder not to put yourself in that predicament. :)

Yeah, the only way I know of to avoid that is to start each mix with every channel turned down, and it just feels wrong to start off at -20dB, you know? :D
 
Yeah, the only way I know of to avoid that is to start each mix with every channel turned down, and it just feels wrong to start off at -20dB, you know? :D

Is that "-20dB" on the fader or on the meter? On the meter that would be fine but you probably don't want your faders starting at -20. So put the faders at 0 and use clip gain to rough in a mix peaking around -16 to -12 on the meter.
 
Is that "-20dB" on the fader or on the meter? On the meter that would be fine but you probably don't want your faders starting at -20. So put the faders at 0 and use clip gain to rough in a mix peaking around -16 to -12 on the meter.
"Clip gain" is called "Take Volume" in Reaper, and you can often use the in/out gains on any plugins at the item or track level to do the same thing, but the point stands.

Except even -12 seems way low for a final mix. I mean, it's gonna get pushed up toward 0 at some point anyway... The same thing about floating point that keeps it from clipping also means that you can mix to a level only one quarter as loud as your converters can get without compromising on noise in the box, but making up that 12db on the analog side on the way to the monitors is a little noisy in my setup at least.
 
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