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rose62

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As I get more familiar with the program I return to the basic thought that I don't really know about creating a project. Suppose I have a song, basically complete but with room to add parts. Would someone who is doing a lot of songs post an outline, please? Not a "how to," but a "what to," i.e. "start by opening a track and recording the basic rhythm. Then massage that track with effect (or with EQ) or whatever." I've gotten familiar enough with the program and searching youtube and the manual to find out how to do a lot of things but I have no idea what is the "template," so to speak, for creating a finished project. I have the distinct feeling that in many cases that I am putting the cart before the horse and in many cases I'm leaving the horse in the barn completely.
 
For me (and others do it differently, much is how you "write" and plan your songs out):
1) Record scratch track demo - this may be guitar or piano only, or guitar + vocal. This is a guide track only. I first set an EZ drummer2 loop that feels about right as a general 'feel', find the right tempo, and use this as my 'click track' because I hate playing to a click!
2) I set markers based on the scratch track - verse 1, chorus 1, etc.
3) I then go back and decide if the tempo is alright the way it is throughout the song, or if it needs to be slowed or sped up at any points. If so, then I'll adjust the tempo where needed, mute the original scratch track and record another scratch track.
4) Next step depends on the song itself, because I do anything from simple 2-acoustic guitar songs, to piano ballads to full-out rock songs. But usually the next step is to record the rhythm instruments - guitars and keyboards.
5) Once I have those done, I have a better feel for what the song is shaping up to, and will start massaging the drum track - changing beats/loops up for different parts of the song, for example. I like to do this to give the bass something to work with. Next step is the bass guitar part.
6) Next for me are the vocals - lead vocal first with multiple takes, then backup vocals (if there are any).
7) Lead parts - guitars, keyboards. I'll lay down multiple takes most times.
8) "Leftovers" - synth pads to fill out the 'wall of sound' in choruses', percussion - shakers, tambourine.
9) Back to the drums. Time to get serious, check the drum sounds to see if they are still ok now that everything is tracked, start putting in the fills, changing timing and sounds on various parts. I'll do this later on, as the mix is getting "close". too.
10) I'm always "pre-mixing" as I track - setting relative volumes of previous tracks, so that the parts jive together.
11) Serious mixing starts - drum levels first, bass and rhythm instruments. Add reverb busses. Vocals and lead parts, comping when needed.

Hope this helps!
 
"Hope this helps!"
It most certainly does. I hear everyone talk of FX and compression. When are these address? As each track is done or after everything is about 'set'?
 
Compression - do not even think about it yet at this stage in your recording learning.

FX - some singers like to hear reverb on their voice when they're singing. If you're DIing an electric guitar you may want to hear the amp sim and effects while playing. Other than those an da few other similar needs, there's no reason to worry about FX until you've everything tracked.
Remember that is how everything sounds together that is important - that's what mixing is really about.

Have you read through the Reaper User manual yet? It's pretty deep and there will be whole chapters that read like Greek to you, feel free to skip over those. As you're starting, record some tracks, then experiment with various plug-ins, play with the knobs and sliders, see what they do. You may come across something where you think 'oh, I wish I had heard it that way when I was tracking this other part' ... or not.
 
My process is massively inefficient due to the lack of a clear demarcation line between composition and recording. I pretty much compose as I go along, then just keep tinkering until it sounds finished. Roughly, here's the process:

1. Noodle endlessly on guitar or bass until I think, "hey that sounds cool."
2. Set up a project in Reaper with a click track or a basic drum loop.
3. Press record and noodle some more on guitar or bass until I think, "hey that sounds cool." Create a song section around that part. Delete the rest.
4. Write out a rough sketch of the chord progression so I know what the hell I'm doing. Noodle over it some more.
5. Think, "man I need a vocal!."
6. Set up a microphone. Set the cool-sounding part to loop. Sing "la la la," "oh yeah yeah," or some other utter gibberish repeatedly, until I think "hey, that will work as a melody." Comp together the best parts from about ten takes of utter gibberish.
7. Think, "man I need some lyrics."
8. Scribble, discard, scribble, discard, until I think: "Okay, there's an idea."
9. Scribble, discard, scribble, and ask myself "What the hell is this song about anyway?"
10. Come up with some kind of guiding idea that will help me write more lyrics. Procrastinate about finishing the lyrics.
11. Think, "man, I need a chorus or something."
12. Return to step 1.
13. Think, "man, I really got to finish these lyrics." Etc.

Hugely inefficient, but I don't know another way to do it. For me, it has to begin with the music. I've never been able to write the lyrics first. I've been finishing more things lately though. One thing I've forced myself to stop doing is polishing turds--recording endless guitar overdubs for a song fragment that is not finished and may never be finished.

The key for me is the vocal melody and lyrics. They take the longest and are the hardest to finish. When I've got those, I'll finish the song quickly.
 
I fall somewhere between the two, but there's no definitive steps. Sometimes I record guitar first. Sometimes I record piano first. I got the idea for this song from building a battle scene and laying the basic kick and snare out of the explosion and gunshot (the lyrics were from a poem a friend of mine wrote).

I have probably 60 unused song ideas. I have probably half that in unused lyrics. Most of the time, they sit around forever and I don't come back to them. Sometimes I'll read a lyric and get a musical idea (or vice versa). Usually, I write a song and then hunt for lyrical inspiration (like Robus).

Sometimes I write a song just like Mike explained. Work out the guitar or piano line and then record it, add keys, guitars affect a drum part, add some bass, vocals, then embellish with leads. With my last two songs, I started adding "real" drums (meaning I'm playing an E kit through SSD4).
Working digitally has some huge benefits. I can't imagine adding a chorus or a drop spot like I did on this song. The song was done, and I didn't like the way it just plodded along, so I made a tape stop. Slid everything over and pumped it in. Lots of bouncing involved in doing that on a set of reels...in Reason, piece of CAKE!

More often, I write like Robus. Noodle until something sounds good, noodle into the machine until something sounds good. Noodle around until I get a break or a chorus. Noodle around until I have enough pieces to make a song. Then I can start adding the rest of the pieces.

Get to know your DAW first. It's amazing how flexible Reaper is! I don't use it as my primary, but I do use it. I just like the workflow and layout of Reason, so that's been my go to ever since 3.0. Each expansion gets better and better. Just waiting for them to open up to AAX...
 
As an additional note to my method outlined above - I always have the whole song - lyrics, melody, chords and basic arrangement written before I start recording.

Something Broken said - working digitally (on the computer) - WOW! I had a song fully tracked, with real drums (courtesy of BongoBoy here, who hasn't been around for a while now). And a number of comments I got on it said cut the 2nd bridge out of it, and after listening 'fresh' a few times, I had to agree. I was able to seamlessly pull that section out in Reaper. The song is on my new album.
Recently, the Neil Young-type tune I posted here, before I got to this stage, some people suggested a lead guitar part where I didn't have one. It was pleasantly easy to copy the instruments from a verse section into place, then lay the lead guitar parts over that. Using my old digital recorder, or any more-primitive recording method would have meant starting from scratch again.
 
mjbphotos said:
For me (and others do it differently, much is how you "write" and plan your songs out):
1) Record scratch track demo - this may be guitar or piano only, or guitar + vocal. This is a guide track only. I first set an EZ drummer2 loop that feels about right as a general 'feel', find the right tempo, and use this as my 'click track' because I hate playing to a click!
2) I set markers based on the scratch track - verse 1, chorus 1, etc.
3) I then go back and decide if the tempo is alright the way it is throughout the song, or if it needs to be slowed or sped up at any points. If so, then I'll adjust the tempo where needed, mute the original scratch track and record another scratch track.
4) Next step depends on the song itself, because I do anything from simple 2-acoustic guitar songs, to piano ballads to full-out rock songs. But usually the next step is to record the rhythm instruments - guitars and keyboards.
5) Once I have those done, I have a better feel for what the song is shaping up to, and will start massaging the drum track - changing beats/loops up for different parts of the song, for example. I like to do this to give the bass something to work with. Next step is the bass guitar part.
6) Next for me are the vocals - lead vocal first with multiple takes, then backup vocals (if there are any).
7) Lead parts - guitars, keyboards. I'll lay down multiple takes most times.
8) "Leftovers" - synth pads to fill out the 'wall of sound' in choruses', percussion - shakers, tambourine.
9) Back to the drums. Time to get serious, check the drum sounds to see if they are still ok now that everything is tracked, start putting in the fills, changing timing and sounds on various parts. I'll do this later on, as the mix is getting "close". too.
10) I'm always "pre-mixing" as I track - setting relative volumes of previous tracks, so that the parts jive together.
11) Serious mixing starts - drum levels first, bass and rhythm instruments. Add reverb busses. Vocals and lead parts, comping when needed.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

My process is pretty much:
1
2 (sometimes I skip or delay this step because I'm lazy)
5 & 9 (If the drums aren't quite there after this step, I'll do some tweaks in step 8)
4
7
6
8
11.
 
There's ways around starting over with tape. Don't know so much about digital recorders. Never used one. But with some cut and splice magic, you can do almost anything with tape you can in a daw. Still a lot less frustrating digitally. :)
 
Oh yeah! You def need to know what you're doing. I never did! That's why I prefer digital. I've never been on the fader side of tracking to tape, so my bias will always be towards digital.
 
It IS easier with wide, exposed tape and the ability to see exactly where the heads are at given points in the music...
 
So, you've got an arrangement and begin tracking: When do you start 'treating' a track? Adding to it whatever you will? After everything is down or as soon as the take is recorded? What is the preferred sequence? First eq, then fx or start with reverb then eq?
 
Yes, exactly.

But seriously, I usually get the tone (amp, mike/or sim). Then track. Repeat for all instruments. Sometimes there will be something that just jumps out, like, "Hey, that Rhodes could use a nice chorus." or whatever. That gets done immediate. Then I add "room" (panning, reverb, etc). Then I start notching (EQ). If your track needs EQ before you get to the next track, you should probably rethink "get the tone" and start over on the track. What I mean by "notching", is making space so that all the instruments are heard. Sax, vocals, guitars, snare, all tend to want the same area sonically, so you give them some space around their fundamental frequencies so that each can shine through, although at that point, none of them really sounds good alone...usually.
 
Sometimes an effect is what you imagined, and sometimes it just "accidents"...meaning you didn't realize that was going to happen. Got a really cool ending on one of my songs by trying to make the last notes ring out longer (took the tempo down to almost nothing). What was cool was the little bit of echo I had on the vocals took that like a 3 second tape loop and just blew me away. Not even sure I could reproduce it. Might try it sometime, but it was awesome (to me) and I kept it in the song.

Other times you listen to the song 10,000 times and then suddenly realize, "Man, I could put a nice slap back on that and it'd really thicken up." or whatever.
 
Except when I have DI-ed an instrument (bass all the time), I don't usually add any fx to the tracks until I'm done tracking. To the bass track I'll add a compressor on the way in, because my playing can be iffy volume-wise on my cheap bass, and then an amp sim. If I DI an electric guitar, I'll throw a sim on that, but it may not be the final sound I use.
Then I'll add reverb busses (I use one each for drums, instruments and vocals, so I can control/mute volumes of each separately). I create more work for myself this way - I should have templates laid out with the busses all set to go, but I never seem to get around to it ...
Anything else depends entirely on the song and what instruments I've used and how the vocals are sitting in it.

Sometimes I won't get the "lead tracks" - whether they are guitar or keyboard - recorded at the same time as the rhythm and vocal tracks (or I realize I need to retrack them), so I might start doing the premix (with FX) but I'll inevitably come back to adjust everything after finishing up the tracking.
 
Sometimes your best friend is the bypass switch. Don't know how it works in other daws, but in Reason there is s bypass switch for each and every effect. When I'm 90% done and realize I need to add/change/retrack, I just bypass all the flair I've added and go back to bare tracks. Tracking on something that's got a lot of reverb/compression/delays/whatever is not hard, but I find it better to keep it clean when tracking. Any "mastering" I've done is definitely getting turned back off. :)
 
Yes, Reaper has bypass for the FX, just unselect the check box next to it in the track FX list. You can also hit bypass in the FX parameter window.
 
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