Beware the cross-fade dropouts!

YanKleber

Retired
A couple days ago close to finish the master of one of my albums as usual I put all the tracks in a folder to listen to it as I would do to any regular album to feel how it sounded overall.

Everything seemed to be fine except that I noticed a subtle dropout in two songs (that I never had noticed before).

Then I came back to the mix to investigate what was causing it. It wasn't too hard to find: in both cases they were exactly in a part of the song where I cut the medias and repeated them (to stretch the duration of the song).

Looking very close to the tracks graphics I noticed that I had slightly cross-faded the joint (fade out at left media and fade in at right media) and immediately I suspected that it could be the reason of the dropout. I started to mute the tracks one by one while listening but the problem seemed to remain until I muted the drum ride track and the problem vanished!

The solution was as simple as to remove the cross-fade in THIS track and the problem has gone. Lesson learned!

In short: Don't use cross-fade when pruning and grafting drum ride media.

I thought that it could be something interesting to share to others.

:thumbs up:
 
Thank you! :thumbs up:

It's amazing what you learn unexpectedly, These seem to be the things I really remember as well!.
 
I would tend to want to optimize the transitions for each instrument seperately. I think it was kind of only accidental that it was just that one particular track in this case. In a different song, different arrangement, different instruments playing different parts, it could be any other track. Or it could be the combination of several tracks. If you take the time to make sure that each track transitions as smoothly as possible on its own, I think you'll be much better off in the long run.

This would be true in any similar situation, too. Comping from multiple takes, etc...
 
Yeah, just don't assume standard crossfade is the best solution for every instance. That's why I actually prefer to comp takes that are on separate tracks rather than as multiple takes on the same track - I can blow up the view and adjust volume on each separately as needed to get them to blend seamlessly.
 
Yeah, just don't assume standard crossfade is the best solution for every instance. That's why I actually prefer to comp takes that are on separate tracks rather than as multiple takes on the same track - I can blow up the view and adjust volume on each separately as needed to get them to blend seamlessly.
You can do that with takes, and then it's easier to glue them together if you're happy with the edit and want to work with just one item from there.

Edit - And with takes, you can move the split point itself - move the end of the one item and the beginning of the other at the same time - in a way that can't be accomplished in separate tracks. Many times, if you set that split point just right, with the automatic "micro fades", you don't even need to crossfade.
 
Many times, if you set that split point just right, with the automatic "micro fades", you don't even need to crossfade.

I don't think I ever uses cross-fades. Most of the time I do what you describe, i.e. set the split place where audio activity is least (and therefore a transition is least noticeable). More often than not, the best pace is just before something happens (a guitar strum, a drum hit, or a bass note being played).


If I have occasion to repeat a chunk of many tracks, I will copy and paste. But I will then go to the join and vary the position of the split on each track to make sure the overall transition is smooth.
 
Yeah, I also only use crossfades when a typical split point does not provide a seamless transition....it's pretty rare that I can't find a short silence or transient that I can place it near. And I NEVER assume that it will sound ok...I always listen back to make sure while in the editing stage.
 
...I do know what the OP is referring to, however. It seems when I have to do crossfades in Reaper, there is a section in between the fades where the volume dips audibly. I can usually correct it by shortening the fade and finding the sweet spot.
 
I will crossfade sometimes like in guitar parts where some strings are ringing, or there's feedback, or on rare occasions where there's some delay or something tailing out. I guess basically when I can't find a clean split point close to where I need it to transition.

Keep in mind that there are different shapes available for those crossfades, and the fade out can easily be different from the fade in. You can also change the length of the fade on either of the items - it doesn't necessarily have to cover exactly the time of the overlap. Also, I guess if you just can't get there with the crossfades, you could use the Take Volume Envelopes to draw in whatever you need.
 
Lesson learned here.

Being a newby and a complete idiot in musical production I just assumed at certain point that cross-fade was mandatory for takes/pieces joints so I simply applied it on EVERY situation and EVERY track thinking that it would be good to go per se.

Fortunately it happened only in two songs and in both cases in the ride track. I think that was made it so audible on this track is because the natural fade between the ride beats. Anyway, it's impressive how a single track issue can ruin the whole stuff!

You can imagine my surprise when I noticed the dropouts! The funniest part is that I never noticed the issue while I was mixing/mastering and only could hear it when I seat back in my couch totally relaxed to listen to the album!

:)
 
...I do know what the OP is referring to, however. It seems when I have to do crossfades in Reaper, there is a section in between the fades where the volume dips audibly. I can usually correct it by shortening the fade and finding the sweet spot.

I believe one of the recent updates changed the default crossfade shape. Previously, it was linear; now it's exponential (track A gets quieter faster than track B gets louder to start; then they level out and swap.)
 
I believe one of the recent updates changed the default crossfade shape. Previously, it was linear; now it's exponential (track A gets quieter faster than track B gets louder to start; then they level out and swap.)

It's always been exponential for me - but maybe I changed it to that when I first started (but I don't remember doing so).
 
I mostly use this:

crossfade1.jpg

Sometimes I do this:

crossfade2.jpg

The second curve causes a dip in level when fading between two different bits of audio. The first curve is what works for most things, like comping takes etc.

When gain envelopes aren't available I edit gain by splitting and crossfading sections. Using the first curve for those causes a little bump in level. The second curve keeps them smooth.
 
Back
Top