Why does my vocal track speed up?

Redhead1

New member
My husband just installed a new sound card on our computer last night, "Sound Blaster Live," and I tried recording today with CEP, which I've been using without problems. When I play back my recording, the tempo of my vocals is faster than the backing (especially more noticeable to me after about a minute into the song). The vocal track is not recording at the tempo it should be for some reason and I don't know if there's a setting either on CEP or on Sound Blaster Live that needs to be changed to make them compatible. I'd never had this problem until after this new sound card was installed. Any thoughts on what's going on?
 
sounds like a sample rate issue....check the sample rate of your backing and vocal tracks and make sure they are the same....
 
Not the problem

I checked the sample rates of both the backing and vocal track and they're set at 44,100. I think there's a problem between the new soundcard and CEP because prior to the new installation, there hasn't been any issues with backings and vocal tracks being out of sync. The only two sample rate settings available on the sound card are 48 and 96 kHz. I don't know if that has anything to do with the sample rates in CEP. I also checked what's called the "SPDIF Output Sampling Rate," which was set at 48 kHz. I don't know what that is but tried changing it to 44.1 kHz, yet my vocal track is still too fast. I don't know what else to try.
 
"The only two sample rate settings available on the sound card are 48 and 96 kHz."

This bit sounds suspicious to me. I'm far from an expert, but if your backing tracks are at 44.1 and the lowest sample rate on the soundcard is 48, then there's gonna be an incompatibility. Unless I'm very mistaken, *everything* in the same session has to be at the same sample rate. Things can be at different bitdepths and even different wav types and file types, but I think everything's gotta be at the same sample rate.

So, try this: make a copy of the session in question, and work with that so that you don't screw up the original. In the new copy, resample everything track by track in Edit View so that all the tracks are at 48 KHz. Then try recording a new vocal track (at 48 KHz), or even import the new vocal into the resampled session. I betcha it works.
 
The 44.1 is a rate I changed temporarily on a setting in my sound card called SPDIF...changed it right back to 48 when I tried recording and it didn't fix the problem.

Besides making sure the sample rates are the same, I also checked the settings for the bit rates and they are the same between the backing and vocal tracks. I still think this has something to do with the new sound card. It's no coincidence that my problems coincided with it's installation. There's something that's not jiving here between CEP and Sound Blaster.
 
I agree with Dobro. Something doesnt sound right with the 48 and 96 khz. Try this...load the vocal track into your edit view and choose Edit > Convert sample type. then choose 44100 and see if anything changes.

Are the 2 tracks still in the same key? If the problem is the sample rate...it seems like one or the other may be out of key on playback since it is playing faster or slower than it should be.
 
I tried to hit convert on 44100 as you said and the vocal track is still is too fast. It didn't change the key, though. Just didn't have any effect on the vocal track.
 
Here's the answer I finally got from "Creative," the company that puts out Sound Blaster:

"I am sorry but none of our value based cards are going to give you the
results you are wanting with multi track recording. You are going to
have to upgrade to a card that has ASIO support before you can get rid
of the latency between the tracks.
Click on the link below to see more information on ASIO support and
which of our sound cards support ASIO."

I went to the link and looked up which cards support ASIO (whatever that means) and there are three Audigy cards and one FX card.

Why can everyone else use Sound Blaster Live with CEP?

CEP has a latency field in OPTIONS < Device Properties where you can enter a number that will reconcile the different tracks because of a different time that occurs between recording a track and playing another. They give a computation formula to figure out the number to enter into the field and they even mention Sound Blaster Live in the Help section on this topic. Just type in "clock" in CEP's Help and go to the listing at the top entitled "Correct for Start Sync in Recorder." If someone could tell me if it's worth the time trying this, I'd appreciate it.

I'd hate to go out and buy an new sound card if there's a way around it.
 
im sure there is something that can be done....not sure what it is....its one of those situations where if I were sitting in front of your computer...I think I could fix it but there are just so many things that could cause the problem.
 
Looks like the problem is solved with a built-in CEP feature:

Here's the CEP Help that mentions Sound Blaster Live and how to correct sync problems:

"Correct for Drift in Recordings
If this box is checked, Cool Edit Pro will look at the sync between the “master” audio playback device (generally, the first “Out” device listed in the session – the one on Track 1) and the record device of the waveform being recorded. If the true sample rates on the cards differ enough that the recording would have drifted out of sync with the original if both were played back at exactly the same sample rate, then the recording is corrected by resampling to make it the proper length. This option only works with new record tracks, not with recording on top of existing waveforms, or punch-ins.

On sound cards that support sample accurate devices (i.e., synchronized device starting, and all devices keyed off of the same clock) you don’t need to check this box. This option allows for some measure of near sample-accurate synchronization across different sound cards, or when using with a single sound card that doesn’t use the same clock for playback and recording (such as the Sound Blaster Live! card)."

I checked the box and recorded something. As soon as you hit the "off" button it automatically runs the correct drift process (takes about 30 seconds for an entire song). I played it back and it's all in sync. Will just add more time to the recording process, but at least it's a solution.

I had contacted Creative about the problem yesterday and they sent me an email today basically telling me that Sound Blaster Live is incompatible with CEP and that I'd have to upgrade to a card that has ASIO support to get rid of latency between tracks...in other words, purchase an Audigy.

Thanks for all your help! This was my first visit to this site and you are all great.
 
Hi....it's just a shame that you have to use that 'slow and arduous' corect for drift function every time you record a vocal!! AHH!! I ran 3 SB Live 5.1's for 3 years with my CEP....for live multi tracking (drums and vox)....never...ever an issue!!
Have you checked your 'device playback/record' order in one of the settings tabs. Open up the help and it'll give you the device open order instructions.
Asio? Not for CEP!!? I don't (can't) use it! It's all WDM!
Also, I suggest..if not suggested already.....increase your system RAM, if 256m or below, keep your format in 16bit @44.1K....should be kookey kool!!
Also, before you start a new project, goto new, and manually select 44100! Go from there. Also check that all your projects are in 16 bit...change that in the 'settings' menu too......just to see if that helps.(although I always ran my cards using 32bit mixing!!)

Keep us updated!
Regards,
Superspit.
 
Redhead, there's some stuff that's been mentioned in this thread that I think you might not have completely understood, so I'm going to check.

1 Do you know how to change the sample rate on a track in Edit View? That's what I suggested you do with all your backing tracks in that session. Did you try that? Did you convert each and every backing track in the session to 48 KHz?

2 Changing SPDIF settinngs won't help you. SPDIF is merely for digital to digital connections. You don't need it if you're recording a vocal, cuz that means a mic, and a mic means analog to digital. SPDIF is beside the point in this case, and doesn't affect this issue.

3 'Correct for Drift' corrects synch problems, but that's not the problem you described. You said your vocal 'is faster than' the backing tracks. That's a different issue. So which is it? Does your vocal speed up, or is it just out of synch with the backing tracks?

4 Other people use Sound Blaster Live with CEP, and so can you. It's a setting somewhere; it isn't the card that's the problem.
 
If someone could tell me how to use the quote feature, I'll be able to answer more directly next time. For now to answer some of the questions here:

1. The bit resolution setting in my computer is currently on 24 as is the new soundcard. In CEP it already defaults to 44100 sample rate and 16 bit.

2. All my settings were changed to default to Sound Blaster Live instead of Wave Mapper, which was used prior to the installation of the new sound card.

3. Under settings in CEP, "Track record defaults to 16-bit. Premixing is set on 32-bit. I tried changing that to 16-bit but it didn't fix the problem so I changed that back.

4. Under settings in CEP the open order is play, rec. The start order is on rec, play.

5. My sound card is 7.1. Do you think it's possible they made some change in this edition that is causing the problem?

6. I don't know exactly if the vocal track recorded too fast or if it's drifting. What happens is..I record my vocal and on playback it seems okay until about a min to a min, 15 sec into the song and then my vocal is ahead of the backing the rest of the recording. I don't know if it's speeding up at some point or drifting since I'm not familiar with either of these problems or precisely what "drift" means.

7. Dobro...I tried changing the backing tracks to 48000 (is that the same as what you referred to as 48 KHz) and it changes the pitch and tempo of the backing so that I can't use it.

Hopefully, I covered all the questions. I hate to use this correct drift feature as it is tedious and time consuming. Still hoping for another solution.
 
I forgot to mention that I looked up the open order and start order. For sound blaster the open order CEP mentioned is rec play and the start order is rec, play. I had to change one, can't remember which, and was hoping that would fix the problem but it didn't.
 
I just tried a little test on a backing. I loaded one into track 1 and recorded it through my mic at the speaker on track 2. I looped and mixed it to make the waves as large as the orginal on track 1. Then I compared the discrepancies between the two tracks at different points. The track is around 6 min. long. At the beginning, the discrepency between the two tracks is 0.002 with the first track starting first. I looked at the discrepency at different points along the two tracks and they're all different in terms of ms. The end of the two tracks shows a discrepency of 1.237 sec. with the second track (recorded one) ending first. Is this an example of "drift" and is this the problem?
 
RH...have u given us some of your machine's spec's yet...?
It's just that RAM, for example, is also an important attribute aswell.
Superspit.
 
Redhead - okeydoke, from your description of the problem, how things start out okay and then become out of synch later on, I'd say that it isn't a synch problem, but something else. Let's try the sample rate. But first, do you have a backup of the backing tracks somewhere safe in case things go wrong with the session that you're working with?
 
I had the same problem trying to record over backing tracks, and I'm using the SB Live 24-bit card.

I first had to convert the backing track from MP3 to .wav, then resample to 48KHz, then back down to 44, saving it as a new wav file. Then I just imported that new file into the multitrack and it worked.

Didn't have to change any settings.

Although, while SB cards will work fine for recording, if you're thinking of upgrading your card you might as well get one meant for recording, like an M-Audio 24/96 or Delta 1010.
 
solo.guitar said:
I had the same problem trying to record over backing tracks, and I'm using the SB Live 24-bit card.

I first had to convert the backing track from MP3 to .wav, then resample to 48KHz, then back down to 44, saving it as a new wav file. Then I just imported that new file into the multitrack and it worked.

Didn't have to change any settings.

Although, while SB cards will work fine for recording, if you're thinking of upgrading your card you might as well get one meant for recording, like an M-Audio 24/96 or Delta 1010.

man...never, ever had this issue with my 3 Live 5.1's...never. Recorded Upto 6 trax at once with never an issue.....accept when at first I was trying to run on 256meg of non DDR and slow ram............strange.
 
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