Hi again - I use the GT Pro FX in real time & can't seem to get a reverb or rev/delay combination setting that i like. The presets are mostly overdone but my edits still sound like too much "air", not clearly defined enough w.o. being too wet or too dry. i'm not after a particular sound - just whatever wd enhance vocals the best. also I seem to get better slapback results by copying the vocal & offsetting the copy slightly... Any tricks or favorite settings you guys use? I don't hear much difference in the filter settings either. Thanks.
reverb settings
- Thread starter paresh
- Start date
Qwerty
New member
I don't know if GT stuff has AUX sends like Sonar, but....
I normally use Reverb or Delay on an auxiliary send, not as a track insert. That way you can vary the track's dry level with the level being sent to the reverb on the auxiliary input to get just the sound you want -- effected, but still with that dry definition.
Now, go make yourself a cup of coffee and have a read of this thread -
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=19596 (Near the bottom of first page)
and
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=39918
Q.
I normally use Reverb or Delay on an auxiliary send, not as a track insert. That way you can vary the track's dry level with the level being sent to the reverb on the auxiliary input to get just the sound you want -- effected, but still with that dry definition.
Now, go make yourself a cup of coffee and have a read of this thread -
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=19596 (Near the bottom of first page)
and
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=39918
Q.Reverb/aux sends
Q (or anyone...) - I did try the aux bus in place of insert reverb & just like you said, it does sound better & I seem to have more control. Since it's tapping the same FX as would go in as an insert, & the FX parameters have a wet/dry balance built in, how should they be set, since the real wet/dry control will be at the aux output? Also it's clipping a bit - do I cut back the send as opposed to the return? Thanks!!!! I'm a musician, not an engeneer...
Q (or anyone...) - I did try the aux bus in place of insert reverb & just like you said, it does sound better & I seem to have more control. Since it's tapping the same FX as would go in as an insert, & the FX parameters have a wet/dry balance built in, how should they be set, since the real wet/dry control will be at the aux output? Also it's clipping a bit - do I cut back the send as opposed to the return? Thanks!!!! I'm a musician, not an engeneer...
rjt
New member
Qwerty,
1) why would reverb cause comb filtering at a track insert level and not as an aux send.... because.... in the end both would be summed. Let's say I ran an accoustic piano through a reverb at a track level.... it comes out summed. If I ran the same piano through an aux, the dry is summed at the master outs with the aux.... so it makes a difference where it gets summed?
2) would using other non-100% (I think of things like compressors or eq as a 100% effect) like chorus also cause comb filtering.
TIA
Take Care
1) why would reverb cause comb filtering at a track insert level and not as an aux send.... because.... in the end both would be summed. Let's say I ran an accoustic piano through a reverb at a track level.... it comes out summed. If I ran the same piano through an aux, the dry is summed at the master outs with the aux.... so it makes a difference where it gets summed?
2) would using other non-100% (I think of things like compressors or eq as a 100% effect) like chorus also cause comb filtering.
TIA
Take Care
Farview
Well-known member
Chorus is comb filtering! You should only get comb filtering if you use an aux send and you don't have the effect set to 100% wet. Because of the effects latency, The dry part of the effected signal is late. So when it combines with the signal from the channel it causes comb filteringrjt said:
jason
rjt
New member
Thanks for the reply
I thought a chorus took the signal, broke it into several parts and delayed them slightly.... while there might be some comb filtering, it was not the major part of the effect.
I thought phasers and flangers were mostly comb filtering.... that because of the calculated time lag, the frequencies were swept causing some frequencies to drop out.
You can tell this is just a hobby for me, so I am often not sure of the technical aspects of some of these things.
Take Care
I thought a chorus took the signal, broke it into several parts and delayed them slightly.... while there might be some comb filtering, it was not the major part of the effect.
I thought phasers and flangers were mostly comb filtering.... that because of the calculated time lag, the frequencies were swept causing some frequencies to drop out.
You can tell this is just a hobby for me, so I am often not sure of the technical aspects of some of these things.
Take Care
Qwerty
New member
OK the really general rule here, (ie. feel free to break it if it gives you the sound that you want), breaks effects up into two groups - time based effects and level based effects.
Level Based Effects - Like EQ, compression or anything else that raises of lower perceived volume is normally used as a track insert.
Time Based Effects - Like reverb, delay, chorus etc., are normally used on an AUX bus set to 100% wet.
Normally with reverb I would set the AUX based effect to be 100% wet and then use the track's SEND parameter to determine how wet the mixed sound actually is. There is no real right and wrong way to balance your volume, tweak the track level, the send level and the return level. Also changing whether the AUX send is sent PRE or POST the track's level controls will also impact the final tonal balance.
Ciao,
Q.
Level Based Effects - Like EQ, compression or anything else that raises of lower perceived volume is normally used as a track insert.
Time Based Effects - Like reverb, delay, chorus etc., are normally used on an AUX bus set to 100% wet.
Normally with reverb I would set the AUX based effect to be 100% wet and then use the track's SEND parameter to determine how wet the mixed sound actually is. There is no real right and wrong way to balance your volume, tweak the track level, the send level and the return level. Also changing whether the AUX send is sent PRE or POST the track's level controls will also impact the final tonal balance.
Ciao,
Q.
Farview
Well-known member
a simple flanger and a simple chorus are almost the same thing. A flanger has a delay 10ms or below, modulation and feedback. A chorus has a delay of 10ms to about 35ms, modulation and no feedback. There are, of course, more complex versions, but those usually involve adding more delays (like more taps) at different delay times and modulating them as well.
jason
jason
Qwerty
New member
Me neither and I think I slightly mangled it - but, it's actually in the help file for the Lexicon "Pantheon" reverb -
"Mix - Mix is the ratio of Wet (reverberated) signal to Dry (direct, unprocessed) signal. Each of Lexicon's factory programs are typically shipped at 100% wet, and we recommend controlling the mix within the recording software’s console, rather than with the Mix parameter. However, the parameter can be used to adjust the wet/dry ratio when the effect is used “in line” and no direct dry signal is sent around the effect. The situation that needs to be avoided is when two direct signals interfere with each other, with a possible slight delay, resulting in severe comb filtering. This can happen when there is both a direct path for the signal around the effect and the mix control is set to a point other than 100% wet."
So yes, Mixsit - looking at that again, as long as there is no other dry signal, it should be cool on the track.
Q.
"Mix - Mix is the ratio of Wet (reverberated) signal to Dry (direct, unprocessed) signal. Each of Lexicon's factory programs are typically shipped at 100% wet, and we recommend controlling the mix within the recording software’s console, rather than with the Mix parameter. However, the parameter can be used to adjust the wet/dry ratio when the effect is used “in line” and no direct dry signal is sent around the effect. The situation that needs to be avoided is when two direct signals interfere with each other, with a possible slight delay, resulting in severe comb filtering. This can happen when there is both a direct path for the signal around the effect and the mix control is set to a point other than 100% wet."
So yes, Mixsit - looking at that again, as long as there is no other dry signal, it should be cool on the track.
Q.
That is interesting. They seem to be indicating that these plugs may not be exactly (or sometimes?) time aligned, thus the possible routing 'gotcha' in there.
'Learn something just about every damned day around here. Thanks Q.
Wayne
Later that night...
Holy cow. I just realized (and subsequently forgot about) I've run into this type of delay 'problem' before -on a simple snare compressor plug.
The very brief nature of the sound of a snare track/kit track mix reveals small changes in timing very easily -just like moving the mics a few inches.
Sometimes (it has not been consistent in my experience) going from 'active' to 'by-pass' on the Sonitus comp plug (inserted on the snare) has shifted the tone of the snare quite a lot.
There's a gotcha without the multi-paths.
Apologies to Paresh for the detour on the thread...
'Learn something just about every damned day around here.
Thanks Q. Wayne
Later that night...
Holy cow. I just realized (and subsequently forgot about) I've run into this type of delay 'problem' before -on a simple snare compressor plug.
The very brief nature of the sound of a snare track/kit track mix reveals small changes in timing very easily -just like moving the mics a few inches.
Sometimes (it has not been consistent in my experience) going from 'active' to 'by-pass' on the Sonitus comp plug (inserted on the snare) has shifted the tone of the snare quite a lot.
There's a gotcha without the multi-paths.
Apologies to Paresh for the detour on the thread...
Last edited:
rjt
New member
Okay, the comb filtering makes more sense to me when there are two direct signals mixed. If I have a lot of tracks using one reverb.... say all the backing tracks, I'll use an aux send... but if I am using a different reverb, say on the accoustic piano (I'm a piano player), I often use the reverb in the track and use the mix control on the effect. Never noticed phase cancellation when I did that.
I was aware (I think) of the difference between chorus and flange, but I somehow thought there was a timing shift or something that caused a swept phase cancellation in the flange/phaser.
Good to get new info.
Thanks!
Take Care
I was aware (I think) of the difference between chorus and flange, but I somehow thought there was a timing shift or something that caused a swept phase cancellation in the flange/phaser.
Good to get new info.
Thanks!
Take Care
Farview
Well-known member
There is a timing shift, thats the modulation. It is changing (slightly) the delay time. when you change the delay time while something is playing through it, you change the pitch. (that is how a harmonizer works) So, when you change (or modulate) the delay time you change the frequencies that are cancelled and boosted. And there was much rejoicing.
its a little pain staking but if you want to get rid of the latenccy from reverb just bump the track forward the 10 or so milliseconds to put it back in time.
a fairly sure fire way to do this is take the track, say a vocal track.
duplicate it, and take the verb off of the duplicate, leaving the verb on the primary track.
solo them both out, and, {provided your using a type of vrb w/latency issues} listen to the tracks together.
you should be hearing a very very slight slap effect going on.
bump the reverbed track froward in 1millisecond increments until the slap effect is gone.
now you can delete the duped track and you should be synced up, or you can compress the dup with a 10;1 or so and fade it behind the reverb track.
peace.
a fairly sure fire way to do this is take the track, say a vocal track.
duplicate it, and take the verb off of the duplicate, leaving the verb on the primary track.
solo them both out, and, {provided your using a type of vrb w/latency issues} listen to the tracks together.
you should be hearing a very very slight slap effect going on.
bump the reverbed track froward in 1millisecond increments until the slap effect is gone.
now you can delete the duped track and you should be synced up, or you can compress the dup with a 10;1 or so and fade it behind the reverb track.
peace.
).... so the trick about comparing the two tracks will be helpful.rev/delay
I'm starting to use the aux busses - I have only 2. It's fine for only 1 vocal as I can put rev on 1 bus & delay on the other for indepandant control - I like to use rev + a little delay. But what if i have 2 vocals & want different settings for each? then rev + delay have to go on the same aux bus & I loose some control - just use trial & error?? Thanks.
I'm starting to use the aux busses - I have only 2. It's fine for only 1 vocal as I can put rev on 1 bus & delay on the other for indepandant control - I like to use rev + a little delay. But what if i have 2 vocals & want different settings for each? then rev + delay have to go on the same aux bus & I loose some control - just use trial & error?? Thanks.
Qwerty
New member
paresh said:
I'm not sure where your problem is here?
I would do this -
- Set up AUX #1 to be your reverb effect loop
- Set up AUX #2 to be your delay effect loop
- Insert a SEND to AUX #1 for your first vocal track
- Insert a SEND to AUX #1 for your second vocal track
- Insert a SEND to AUX #1 for your third vocal track
- Insert another SEND to AUX #2 for your first vocal track
- Insert a SEND to AUX #2 for your guitar track
- Adjust the individual tracks SEND level to tailor the sound to taste
In that example, you have used your two auxilliary input busses and have got the following effect list
- First vocal track = Reverb + Delay
- Second and Third vocal tracks = Just Reverb
- Guitar track = Just Delay
Again, I don't know the interface of your product directly, but that is how you would do it in Sonar 2 or 3, so I presume it is pretty much the same thing.
Let us know how you go.
Q.