akai vs. yamaha vs. korg

gitrokr

New member
i have an 8 track but am bumping up to a 16 track. which 16 track would you recommend and why? can you tell me some of the pros and cons too each of these? im looking for phantom power, at least 8 simultaneous tracks, effects, (how many?), and just good noiseless professional pres and recorder.

akai dps16
yamaha aw16g
korg d1600mkII

thanks guys jsut tell me what you think of each of these
 
I have a DPS16 and I love it. It's out of production; AKAI put their energies into the flagship DPS24. 16 / 24 bit recording, up to 96 mHz (high resolution halves the available resources). Really nice preamps, intuitive controls. Downside is a noisy fan. These are under a thousand bucks on ebay.

The unit connects to a (necessary) external SCSI CD burner, also available from a reputable ebay vendor. It has four analog sends and can be used in live sound applications if you want to. With the v 3.02 software upgrade (free), it has great effects - four on a channel - and a beautiful compressor.

The Yahoo user group has a freeware program available that allows you to grab 16 tracks at once from a backup CD, so you can do serious computer mix / mastering.

Try to get a unit that has already had the software upgrade, and look for something larger than the 10 GB disk. Standard is 20 and a few had 40 Gig disks.
 
can you explain this yahoo freeware programnd you really like the compressor on it?and theres softwrae for the 4 effects? thanks that was informative
 
I was looking at the Korg D16XD or 32XD until I found out they have noisy fans. I'll bet they are great units though. I just can't figure out why anyone would put a dang noisy fan in a a recorder like that. Crazy!
 
Yo Gitro & Steve:]

Steve: It's really hard to figure why the engineers will go to great lengths with most parts of a unit and dump in some junky fan -- makes one think!

Git:

You have left out the possibility of the Yamaha 2816 and the 4416. Both have phantom power -- 2816 has it for two XLR inputs. I'm sure the 4416 is very similar -- you can easily find out on the net by checking out the units from any vendor who has them for sale and an 800 phone number.

I've heard the 4416 is on the way out but it's a good box. Should be some good deals on either unit. I don't know if Yam is going to bury the 2816 -- probably and come out with a new improved SIAB. I just got into importing some WAVE files from a friend and it was pretty easy although the directions were confusing because they give them twice within two pages.

I would guess the Korg has good sound and I've heard and read nice comments about the Akai unit.

I really dig the Yamaha reverb which comes with the box.
I don't think you will get strong editing but it's there. I just hooked in an RNC compressor and love it. It does a great job for a modest price. [no, I don't sell them or work for the company]

The Yams have compression but they are mostly presets and there is tweaking --- lots of dials to click.

I'd give all three Yam SIABs a check.

Green Hornet




:D :p :cool:
 
hey green guy!......how's the fan/hard drive noise on your 2816? have you heard the 4416 in action? That's what I'm trying to get away from.....noise, noise, noise......I hate it. My D8 is pretty silent until I get about 8 tracks on it and then.....click, click, click....I'm thinking I may have to go with a PC to get away from it. I'm recording everything in a bedroom.
 
Yo Steve:

I hardly notice any fan noise on the 2816. I've got my studio set up in what would have been a bedroom -- no room in there for any bed.

I usually do a couple of tracks to get the rhythm set and then I overdub until I finish the tune. With a vocalist, I usually use CD background stuff and just tweak the vocal to make the talent feel happy.

The Yam reverb is very good and the CD burning part is pretty easy to learn. Just dabbled into some Wave files a friend sent me and that was pretty easy to learn from the manual.

There should be some good deals going on for the 4416 or 2816. I heard the 4416 was going to be terminated by Yamaha--probably a new model? I can't speak for the fan on the 4416. Never had my hands on one. But, a friend of mine took a trip to Sweetwater Sound in Indiana and tried just about everything there is to try and learned a great deal from the techies/salesfolks. That might be something to consider at a major vendor near you.

Have a good one.
Green Hornet :D :cool:
 
Thanks Hornet. But..sorry to say, there are no major anythings near me. :D I've been looking at the 4416 though. The prices oughta be dropping like a rock on those pretty shortly.
 
Whatever you choose, make sure you can build on, upgrade, or modify the recorder. It's great, for example, to be able to replace the hard drive. And it's even better if the recorder will accomodate external preamps, A/D converters and effects.
 
Have you considered the Fostex VF160? Very nice, very stable. Can take commonly available HardDrives up to 80gig. Has 16 tracks with 16 faders plus a master fader. Records 8 at once or 16 at once with an ADAT equipped mixer. Mine is very quiet.
 
i read a review on proaudioreview.com for the fostex VF160 and he said he really liked it, i know it has 2 phantom power ins, but does it have any effects, hows the compression? and how many inputs does it have in all, kuz it says it can do 16 tracks simultaneously? thanks
 
gitrokr said:
i read a review on proaudioreview.com for the fostex VF160 and he said he really liked it, i know it has 2 phantom power ins, but does it have any effects, hows the compression? and how many inputs does it have in all, kuz it says it can do 16 tracks simultaneously? thanks

35+ effects (reverbs and delays of various descriptions), no guitar or amp simulations. The reverbs can all be adjusted and two different effects can be placed on each track. If effects are put on during mixdown (most common), then you must choose two effects for the whole mix (unless you do scene memory changes). Obviously some tracks can be kept dry, or set with varying degrees of each effect, but on mixdown you can't have 2 given effects on one track and 2 completely different ones on another. However, with internal ping-ponging you can add as many effects as you like prior to mixdown.

To do 16 tracks at once, you must get an ADAT interface, of which Fostex makes one, as do others.

I like the compression, but don't use it often because I have an external RNC. My machine is two floors up, but in general, it has 8 inputs, 2 XLR, 2 inserts, 1 ADAT, SCSI and (I believe it has s/pdif in+out; aux out). It records 44.1khz/16bit uncompressed. It's got 20bit/24bit AD/DA conversion.

My sense of the VF160 is it's very well thought out, becomes very intuitive, and rarely freezes. The ONLY time I've been able to make mine freeze up is if I push too many buttons while the hard-drive is being accessed during a procedure. Even so, I've never lost data, never. Also there is no on-board fan (though my unit stays very cool). I think they use a 5400 rpm 3.5" hard drive which is both cooler and quieter.

In some ways the VF160 is set up to act like an analogue tape machine. For instance, there's no shut down procedure, just turn it off. When you turn it back on you're automatically brought to the song you were last on. Everything you record is saved as you go, and the drive is optimized/defragged as you go. In addition, these are now shipping with a 30gig drive that is replaceable with a number of easily accessible units (Maxtor, Western Digital, etc. up to 80gig)

I would say the screen on the unit is smallish, there is only 1 level of UNDO/REDO (not 99 like some have), there are only 8 virtual tracks, and the manual is not the best ever written.

There are a lot of nice units out there. They all have their proponents, and I'll bet you can make great recordings on each one. I looked at the Korg 1600, but there is a significant price difference. (The VF160 goes for about $850.)
 
the yammie aw16 is stupid easy to use and quiet as death as far as noise feedback/bullshit.
A truly amazing machine and its cheaper than the other ones too.

Ive had mine 5 days and have it pretty much wired.
 
fostex

Like Bill said, the Fostex is a solid, dependable unit. I've used a VF-16 for several years and I've never had any issues with it. But, like any stand-alone machine, the Fostex has its limits--largely due to the fact that you can only put so much quality into an all-in-one unit at a relatively low price point. My VF-16, for example, does not deal very well with low-end EQ. You have a single shelving filter and no adjustments. In addition, the VF-16 has compressors, but they only operate on tracks 13-14 or 15-16. And, if you use compression on these tracks, you can't EQ. There are also limits to the built-in mixing board. You can record dry and mix wet with built-in effects, but to use external effects (which, IMHO, are better than the built-ins) you must "record" a new track after routing the original to the external reverb, etc. So, if you record 16 tracks you cannot mix using external effects unless you delete one or more of your original tracks. But my biggest complaint with the Fostex has to do with 16 bit recording. I just can't get past the fact that the VF-16 records at 16bit using 20 bit A/D converters. It seems that everyone else has gone 24 bit and I'm sure even that will change over the next several years.
 
Re: fostex

dwillis45 said:
Like Bill said, the Fostex is a solid, dependable unit. I've used a VF-16 for several years and I've never had any issues with it. But my biggest complaint with the Fostex has to do with 16 bit recording. I just can't get past the fact that the VF-16 records at 16bit using 20 bit A/D converters. It seems that everyone else has gone 24 bit and I'm sure even that will change over the next several years.

Like the Yamaha aw16, the VF160 records at 16bit, and while I can only assume 24bit is better, a lot of the machines that record at that level only do so with fewer tracks operating. I believe some also have limited playback ability @ 24bit.
 
Yo Bills & et. al.:

Here is a thought for you. I can record at 24 bit on the 2816 and run the tracks out via the RCA stereo outs into DAT or tape. Works pretty well.

But, most of the time I use the 16 bit to accomodate burning the CD.

Green Hornet:D :cool:
 
Re: Re: fostex

billisa said:
Like the Yamaha aw16, the VF160 records at 16bit, and while I can only assume 24bit is better, a lot of the machines that record at that level only do so with fewer tracks operating. I believe some also have limited playback ability @ 24bit.

Good point Bill! You really have to read the fine print on these machines to determine how many tracks you can record/playback at 24 bit. Some 16 track machines are actually 24bit 8-track recorders!

I wish some enterprising reviewer/bored engineer would conduct a "shootout" using stand-alone hard disk recorders in the $500-$2,000. The big (and I would argue most important) variable in choosing a stand-alone recorder is the quality of the preamps and the A/D converters. At each price point you can guess about the quality of these built-in components, but I've never seen anyone offer any serious comparisons among units.

My only real world experience with comparatively evaluating the VF-16 came when I started using my MOTU 828 firewire interface to record to a computer using the software that came with the 828 (AudioDesk). I found that the 828>Computer route produced better sonic results than the VF-16 alone or using the VF-16 with low-end outboard preamps (Aphex 207? Focusrite Trakmaster). The results were not overly dramatic but they were clear.
 
I thijnk it would be hard for a "shoot-out evaluation" of stand-alone DAWs to say much since each machine has its strengths and weaknesses, depending on the user's special needs.

With that said, though, I have noticed that one of the few mags that actually does often place a product *in context* with its direct competition is "Sound-On-Sound." At the $1000 price point, the mag has several times (during the past year) noted--while reviewing different DAWs--that the Yamaha aw16g is currently the all-around leader of that pack in terms of overall features per dollar.

I have no idea, however, for the $1500-$2000 price point... there are so many good choices from Roland, Akai, Yamaha, and others, including a new 24-bit model from Korg that looks interesting (reviewed obscenely well in February's Recording mag).

Still, I think it's most important to figure out what *you* need and then choose accordingly, especially after getting your hands (and eyes and ears) on the various models.

Good luck,

J.
 
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