Why can't I figure out this Time Clock?

[35chevy]

I'm running PT 8.0.5 and a M-AUDIO ProFire 2626. I'm trying to use a Alesis SR-16 drum machine to lay down a simple drum track to follow while recording other instruments. It will be later replaced by live drums. I find it easier to follow than a click track. I cannot get PT and the SR-16 in time. When I record, PT starts recording when I press play on the DM, but the DM doesn't play with the click. I can quantize the recording, but how do I make the clock work so that it records dead on without having to quantize and edit? I've searched here and around the internet and watched videos on youtube, and nothing has worked.

Here's how I have it set up. I have a midi cable from the DM to both MIDI in and out on my 2626. In the DM, I have the drum in on, drum out on, clock in on, clock out on, and MIDI thru on. In PT, I have an aux track with the Boom insert and a MIDI track. The input on the MIDI track is set to the SR-16 > all channels. The output is set to Boom-1 > Channel-1 which sends it to the aux track. All of this seems to work fine.

I went to Setup > Peripherals > Machine control, and checked MIDI Machine Control (Master), and selected the SR-16.

I went to Setup > MIDI > MIDI Beat Clock, and checked Enable MIDI beat clock for the SR-16.

Why isn't this working? I just starting fooling around with MIDI last week, and I'm sort of lost. Thanks for your help.

[Steenamaroo]

Hi there,
I've never used a clock with midi before; I'm not even sure if such a thing exists.

However, If you are able to set a tempo in the Alesis SR and set the same tempo in your ProTools session your midi should match up.

Sure, it may start out of sync but it should be consistently out. That should mean that when all's said and done you can select the entire midi arrangement and just slide it to match up to your grid.

If there's a more elegant way to do it someone else will have to chime in.

[35chevy]

Hi there,
I've never used a clock with midi before; I'm not even sure if such a thing exists.

However, If you are able to set a tempo in the Alesis SR and set the same tempo in your ProTools session your midi should match up.

Sure, it may start out of sync but it should be consistently out. That should mean that when all's said and done you can select the entire midi arrangement and just slide it to match up to your grid.

If there's a more elegant way to do it someone else will have to chime in.

Thanks for your response. What I am making reference to is the MIDI Beat Clock, which is built into Pro Tools. It somehow uses MIDI Time Code to sync external devices with Pro Tools. The problem is that it is not consistently out. If you set both the DM and Pro Tools to the same BPM, they are far enough off that it gets farther out of time as time passes. If it was consistently out, a simple shift to the grid would work fine. Quantizing works OK with simple beats, but anything crazy gets changed around a bit when quantizing. This isn't isolated to me, I've read several places when doing a Google search on this topic where others have the same problem with PT and the SR-16. Some say they have fixed it, but I cannot find any reference to how.

[Steenamaroo]

Oh wow. That really is a problem.
Sorry, I can't help then.

There are a few other PT guys around here though. Maybe one of them can.

[ddrummer8]

Not too sure how exactly to solve your issues, but a possible solution to you having to fix it after record is to have real time quantization on as its recording, it may be out, but if its a simple beat pro tools will auto quantize to the grid and maybe save you a step. Can't remember if its only on instruments track though, but either way its in the track settings.

[35chevy]

Not too sure how exactly to solve your issues, but a possible solution to you having to fix it after record is to have real time quantization on as its recording, it may be out, but if its a simple beat pro tools will auto quantize to the grid and maybe save you a step. Can't remember if its only on instruments track though, but either way its in the track settings.

I'll check that out and see if I can figure out real time quantization when I get home today. That may make it easier to shift things around in the grid if I can get it to work. For now, I can record a couple of bars, then quantize it, and it's dead on. I just loop it from there and I've got a good basic drum track to play along with. If I record more than just a few bars, it gets so far off that quantize won't fix it correctly. I can do with this for now, but creating complex drum tracks with the sr-16 isn't going to happen until I figure this out.

[mixsit]

I've been curious-- not that I use or need it, more just in the 'good to know stuff dept..

Isn't slaving devices like that to DAW apps midi a fairly standard use?

[Dags]

Hi there
The way I work with MIDI is that I set one device to have its MIDI clock set to 'external' (usually the hardware box or synth) and then use the other device (software) to drive the MIDI timecode.
In the system setup on the SR-16 for MIDI you should be able to set it to be internal (default) or external.
Set it to external, hit 'play' and it shouldn't do anything until it receives a 'pulse' from your software and the software MIDI pulse should keep things in time for you.

>.
I went to Setup > Peripherals > Machine control, and checked MIDI Machine Control (Master), and selected the SR-16.
>.
Just going back over your email, the way you have set this up seems like you're using the SR-16 to drive the tempo. Is that right?
In this event you'll need to do things in reverse where the SR-16 MIDI clock is set to internal, and the software MIDI clock is set to external (which I think you've done) and when you hit 'record' in protools it should stand by until you hit play on the SR-16.
Forget MIDI thru at the moment in the SR-16. It is for connecting other MIDI devices in series through the box.

[edit] Oh, and use MIDI TIME CODE (MTC) or MIDI clock instead of midi machine control - I don't really know what MMC is used for, but straight midi time code synch between MIDI devices should work

Dags

[35chevy]

Hi there
The way I work with MIDI is that I set one device to have its MIDI clock set to 'external' (usually the hardware box or synth) and then use the other device (software) to drive the MIDI timecode.
In the system setup on the SR-16 for MIDI you should be able to set it to be internal (default) or external.
Set it to external, hit 'play' and it shouldn't do anything until it receives a 'pulse' from your software and the software MIDI pulse should keep things in time for you.

>.
I went to Setup > Peripherals > Machine control, and checked MIDI Machine Control (Master), and selected the SR-16.
>.
Just going back over your email, the way you have set this up seems like you're using the SR-16 to drive the tempo. Is that right?
In this event you'll need to do things in reverse where the SR-16 MIDI clock is set to internal, and the software MIDI clock is set to external (which I think you've done) and when you hit 'record' in protools it should stand by until you hit play on the SR-16.
Forget MIDI thru at the moment in the SR-16. It is for connecting other MIDI devices in series through the box.

[edit] Oh, and use MIDI TIME CODE (MTC) or MIDI clock instead of midi machine control - I don't really know what MMC is used for, but straight midi time code synch between MIDI devices should work

Dags

Thanks for the suggestions...I'll try changing a few things tonight and get back to you on how it works.

[MrChuckles]

Thanks for the suggestions...I'll try changing a few things tonight and get back to you on how it works.

Hi,

I used to have an SR16 and all I used was "Beat Clock". MMC or MTC doesn't need to be on as the SR16 does not respond to either protocol. You started off correct, but did u set the SR to external clock? Turn "clock in" on and "clock out" off. Since u are using Midi Beat Clock, PT must be the master as it only accepts MTC as an input and the SR16 does not generate that.

Turn the midi thru off also. This way u are not creating a Midi loop.
Hope that helps.