Why is s/pdif not so popular?
- Thread starter Starstreams
- Start date
Yes, S/PDIF is an old system but can be useful. Some ten years ago we, son and I, had two desktop computers linked via co-axial S/PDIF with other connections going to other gear, a small mixer. The digital link has the advantage that there is no gain structuring to worry about nor ground loop issues because even RCA digital is isolated using pulse transformers. The PCs each had an M-A 2496 card in them. We also used a Mini Disc for certain tasks and that had S/PDIF* out. I built an RCA 'breakout' box so that it could be patched into either computer.
My 42" FSTV has digital out and that feeds a cheap USB powered DAC and all sounds glorious over my Tannoy 5As (Thieving Magpie belting out atmo!)
There was an excellent mic pre amp produced my Audient a few years ago which unusually had S/PDIF out (with a very good A/D by all accounts) the "Mico". Sadly no more I wish I had sold a body part and got one back then!
"MIDI over S/PDIF" is a new one on me?
*Worked with optical to RCA converters perfectly and only about 15 quid a pop.
Dave.
My 42" FSTV has digital out and that feeds a cheap USB powered DAC and all sounds glorious over my Tannoy 5As (Thieving Magpie belting out atmo!)
There was an excellent mic pre amp produced my Audient a few years ago which unusually had S/PDIF out (with a very good A/D by all accounts) the "Mico". Sadly no more I wish I had sold a body part and got one back then!
"MIDI over S/PDIF" is a new one on me?
*Worked with optical to RCA converters perfectly and only about 15 quid a pop.
Dave.
There is your edit button Starstreams, bottom left but I will admit it is a bit elusive!
Also, if you are going to complain about other people's errors you should spell "correct LY!" Adverb my friend.
Another trick to avoid posting rubbish is to write it all up in say Word then, once corrected, copy and paste. I have done this on another forum for longer posts because they had a habit of losing your work and do not have any auto-save.
Dave.
Also, if you are going to complain about other people's errors you should spell "correct LY!" Adverb my friend.
Another trick to avoid posting rubbish is to write it all up in say Word then, once corrected, copy and paste. I have done this on another forum for longer posts because they had a habit of losing your work and do not have any auto-save.
Dave.
Attachments
Starstreams
Member
No ecc83
That edit and report button is not there on my screen. I'm trying to resolve this issue, but where the hell are the mods on this fourm? I haven posted in the newbee section since I don't see a help section and I even send an email to the link at the bottom right on this site. but it is a holiday.
That edit and report button is not there on my screen. I'm trying to resolve this issue, but where the hell are the mods on this fourm? I haven posted in the newbee section since I don't see a help section and I even send an email to the link at the bottom right on this site. but it is a holiday.
Attachments
Starstreams
Member
rob aylestone
Moderator
Pack in complaining Starstreams - I'm not an andmin or a mod, but the software here is on a couple of forums I use and the missing edit button I think is a feature that can have a time lock, post count, period of membership and even reputation status attached to it and if you don't have it, then youre just going to have to wait until somebody, over the christmas holiday gives up doing family things and comes here to log in and read your messages. It's a button not a pending heart attack! I'm working over Christmas, and HAVE to answer emails on Christmas Day and answer the phone. Unpaid forum people don't! Wanting to edit a post is hardly worth getting so angry about - take a chill pill and calm down. If you edit your post, nobody is going to go back and even read it? I never read anything but the ones on th current screen!
On the S/PDIF front - the stories here are EXACTLY what we had in the 90s - confusion over the connectors vs what was going down the cable. The TOSLINK was developed by Toshiba. The connector was also used by Alesis - and like MIDI cables in the 70s, they mostly worked fine. MIDI cables were far more trouble a they looked exactly like some European Hi-Fi cables - but had different wiring - so failed for MIDI, and dedicated, correctly wired MIDI cables failed for connecting Hi-Fi.
The trouble with S/PDIF was to do with poor transmission through the connectors - especially when a bit dirty. The light level dropped and at some point the signal was invalid and muted - or worse, would hover just over or just under the go/nogo point. The coax version was more reliable.
The upshot was simple S/PDIF was Toslink or RCA connectors, and stereo. ADAT was TOSLINK and 8 channels. Pretty much that was it. Short optical cables worked better than long ones - I guess based on today's fibre optic evolution that might appear odd, but I think the actual fibres back then were just less resilient, and got bent around sharp edges and some fractured. Now we know how clean and dust free fibre has to kept. Back then a red light carrying music was magic.
On the S/PDIF front - the stories here are EXACTLY what we had in the 90s - confusion over the connectors vs what was going down the cable. The TOSLINK was developed by Toshiba. The connector was also used by Alesis - and like MIDI cables in the 70s, they mostly worked fine. MIDI cables were far more trouble a they looked exactly like some European Hi-Fi cables - but had different wiring - so failed for MIDI, and dedicated, correctly wired MIDI cables failed for connecting Hi-Fi.
The trouble with S/PDIF was to do with poor transmission through the connectors - especially when a bit dirty. The light level dropped and at some point the signal was invalid and muted - or worse, would hover just over or just under the go/nogo point. The coax version was more reliable.
The upshot was simple S/PDIF was Toslink or RCA connectors, and stereo. ADAT was TOSLINK and 8 channels. Pretty much that was it. Short optical cables worked better than long ones - I guess based on today's fibre optic evolution that might appear odd, but I think the actual fibres back then were just less resilient, and got bent around sharp edges and some fractured. Now we know how clean and dust free fibre has to kept. Back then a red light carrying music was magic.
Rob, whilst I agree with your general tone about Starstreams throwing his toys out the pram you are wrong about DIN cables old chum.
The standard, pin for pin wired 5 pin 180 degree (A) DIN cable worked perfectly well for audio and MIDI. I have several and have made up quite a few (from FTP CAT cable) in the past.
The 'straight' 5 pin DIN cable would take stereo audio from say a turntable to the phono inputs of an amplifier or stereo to AND from a tape machine to an amp. The only 'stranger' was the "crossover" cable needed to send stereo signals from one tape recorder to another for copying.
That would not work for MIDI but then it did not work for amps either! You might have fallen foul of a THREE pin DIN cable which you might think would work for MIDI but don't because the data goes on pins 1&4 and 3&5 pin 2 always being common/screen.
The DIN connection regime was born in the mono valve era and was designed to work on the 'constant current' principle rather than our present constant voltage one. For the high voltages, high impedance of valve gear it worked famously but was not suited to low V transistors plus few engineers outside Germany understood it at the time.
You might remember Rob that early computer keyboards used a 5 pin DIN cable? I got a few very cheaply at fairs and they worked fine for MIDI.
Felicitations of the season and GOODWILL to all!
Dave.
The standard, pin for pin wired 5 pin 180 degree (A) DIN cable worked perfectly well for audio and MIDI. I have several and have made up quite a few (from FTP CAT cable) in the past.
The 'straight' 5 pin DIN cable would take stereo audio from say a turntable to the phono inputs of an amplifier or stereo to AND from a tape machine to an amp. The only 'stranger' was the "crossover" cable needed to send stereo signals from one tape recorder to another for copying.
That would not work for MIDI but then it did not work for amps either! You might have fallen foul of a THREE pin DIN cable which you might think would work for MIDI but don't because the data goes on pins 1&4 and 3&5 pin 2 always being common/screen.
The DIN connection regime was born in the mono valve era and was designed to work on the 'constant current' principle rather than our present constant voltage one. For the high voltages, high impedance of valve gear it worked famously but was not suited to low V transistors plus few engineers outside Germany understood it at the time.
You might remember Rob that early computer keyboards used a 5 pin DIN cable? I got a few very cheaply at fairs and they worked fine for MIDI.
Felicitations of the season and GOODWILL to all!
Dave.
rob aylestone
Moderator
HA! I had a whole pile of 5 pins that were onoly 1 and 3 connected and they always got mixed in with the all connected - and don't even get me started on the crossover cables you needed for connecting two tape recorders. At least it got better when we started fitting everything with phonos! Dave - remember the adpators so you used the computer joystick socket for pac man and spac invaders? God - the DIN days were awful. 180 degrees, 3 or 5 pins, 5 pin domino, 4 pins, 2 pins and then the 6,7,8 and even 9 pin versions. The 7 pins were 270 degrees or something weren't they?
keith.rogers
Well-known member
I should mention that I'm using the same Toslink optical cable (that at one time connected an ADAT/mic-preamp device to my audio interface) to connect my somewhat recent Sony "smart" TV to an older Samsung soundbar for ARC capability (audio-video sync, that actually works pretty well most of the time!).
This was a backup cable still in some shrink wrap that I had forgotten about but, after a year of trying to manually recalibrate sync times, finally got around to RTFM, the light bulb went on and I dug around in the old suitcase of miscellaneous cables to unwrap and try out.... Some technologies lives on and on beyond their original use, obviously.
This was a backup cable still in some shrink wrap that I had forgotten about but, after a year of trying to manually recalibrate sync times, finally got around to RTFM, the light bulb went on and I dug around in the old suitcase of miscellaneous cables to unwrap and try out.... Some technologies lives on and on beyond their original use, obviously.
jamesperrett
Active member
You have to take most things you read on the net with a pinch of salt. This is especially true of Gearspace where people seem to love spouting off about subjects that they have very little knowledge of. If you believe everyone then you'll end up very confused. I happen to know John Willett personally and his speciality is high quality stereo recording so I wouldn't necessarily take his answer on multitrack devices as authoritative. If you want guaranteed authoritative answers on a recording forum then I'd stick to reading Hugh Robjohns' posts on the Sound On Sound forum - he has a very wide knowledge of audio and also knows where to find authoritative answers if it is one of the few subjects that he doesn't know. I read quite a few forums and I don't know of anyone else posting regularly who provides consistently knowledgeable, thorough and correct answers.
ADAT Lightpipe
A widely used eight-channel optical digital audio interface developed by Alesis as a bespoke interface for the company's digital eight-track tape machines in the early 1990s (Alesis Digital Audio Tape). The interface transfers up to eight channels of 24-bit digital audio at base sample rates...
is the SOS explanation of lightpipe
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contains more information on S/PDIF.
jamesperrett
Active member
It seems strange that no-one else has made something similar to the Mico. Mind you, Audient's cheapest 8 channel preamp isn't much more expensive than the Mico was.
I think the OP is just getting confused when he talks about MIDI over S/PDIF. For a moment I wondered if his RME interface had them both on the same connector (one of mine does) but the UCX II has separate connectors for each connection. It is certainly possible to send certain additional information in the subcode section of an S/PDIF signal but this is normally limited to information about the signal itself (like sample rate, pre-emphasis or copy protection) or codes like ISRC, UPC/EAN or track starts. If the TC M-One supported anything else then I think Hugh would have mentioned it in his SOS review.
Starstreams
Member
@ Rob aylestone
I understand some forums have a waiting period. But I've been a member for over 13 years. lol
And the admin who responded could maybe have explained any such software implimentations in the link below for piece of mind. I don't see anything in the rules mentioned. If I can't edit my posts to fix mistakes or reiterate what I say properly from time to time, it's not much of a conversation for me here. Earning the right to edit your mistakes is a privilege? I should be flattered when the time comes. Give me a break. What planet are we on here?
I understand some forums have a waiting period. But I've been a member for over 13 years. lol
And the admin who responded could maybe have explained any such software implimentations in the link below for piece of mind. I don't see anything in the rules mentioned. If I can't edit my posts to fix mistakes or reiterate what I say properly from time to time, it's not much of a conversation for me here. Earning the right to edit your mistakes is a privilege? I should be flattered when the time comes. Give me a break. What planet are we on here?
Starstreams
Member
@jamesperrett
Thanks for the sound on sound advice and other things you mentioned.
I can tell by reading all these posts, some of you old guys, or I mean wise guys really know you're stuff.
Sorry about my post above. I just didn't like someone above telling me I'm being a baby when I've been waiting for two weeks for a responce on this fourm issue. Anyway, maybe I should just sit back and read for a while. You guys do add some interesting topics.
@rob aylestone, seems you've been around this industry awhile. You guys are interesting to listen to. Please carry on.
Thanks for the sound on sound advice and other things you mentioned.
I can tell by reading all these posts, some of you old guys, or I mean wise guys really know you're stuff.
Sorry about my post above. I just didn't like someone above telling me I'm being a baby when I've been waiting for two weeks for a responce on this fourm issue. Anyway, maybe I should just sit back and read for a while. You guys do add some interesting topics.
@rob aylestone, seems you've been around this industry awhile. You guys are interesting to listen to. Please carry on.