vocal compression using 2 compressors - can a single compressor do the same thing?

B

banjo71

New member
I had a question about vocal compression.

When I learned about how to compress vocals, my mentor told me use 2 compressors:

vocal compressor 1:
Knee = 0 dB, Ratio = 8:1, Attack = 10 ms, Release = 50 ms, Gain = 1 dB, Set Threshold where peaks are compressed by about -5 dB.

vocal compressor 2:
Knee = 15 dB, Ratio = 2:1, Attack = 20 ms, Release = 120 ms, Gain = 2 dB, Set Threshold where peaks are compressed by about -1 dB

This was a general starting point and kind of tweak it from there.


Do they make single compressors that do the same thing for the vocal? That way instead of using 2 plugins you use 1 plugin.
 
not sure about that 8:1 ratio, it's too high. I also prefer using 2 compressors instead of 1, but with far more subtle settings
 
A lot of people will use two compressors instead of one, so I wouldn't be too concerned about using just one instead of two.

Do you get why you're using two instead of one though? If not, I personally feel like the two compressors are flip flopped a little bit (that's just personal preference though). I'd personally want the lower ratio one first, and then compress that one by several dB instead of just one. That's going to level out your sound overall so there aren't too many spots that are quiet, and then too many that are louder than others (use this in conjunction with clip gain/automation for best results).

The second one I use with a high ratio and fast attack time to just catch and fast transients that I don't want sticking out. Fast attack and fast release. I just want it to catch those peaks and bring them down, then get out of the way.
 
Yes, you can use two compressors. And depending on where you put the second compressor in your chain (you may have other processes going on before and/or after the first compressor), will yield varying impacts on your final sound. You can have two or more of anything in your chain really, depending on what you are trying to achieve. For example, think of EQ on a snare drum, you may want to put an EQ with low cut up front to get rid of thud and picking up the kick, then add a compressor to level out the hits, then you might decide you want to boost the upper mids and add a separate EQ at the end. Nothing says you are limited to using a single plug a single time per track/channel. I even saw a guy reverb some reverb once. Don’t ask.

Yes there are plug ins that have multiple compression steps in a single plug in/process. iZotope Nectar. izotope-nectar2-compressor-full.png
 
PS - You can also run the two compressors in series or in parallel. Running in series comprsses the previously compressed signal. Like my EQing-the-EQed-snare-drum example.
 
gregoryg said:
And depending on where you put the second compressor in your chain (you may have other processes going on before and/or after the first compressor), will yield varying impacts on your final sound... For example, think of EQ on a snare drum, you may want to put an EQ with low cut up front to get rid of thud and picking up the kick, then add a compressor to level out the hits, then you might decide you want to boost the upper mids and add a separate EQ at the end.
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This is huge right here, as well. I was just talking to one of our interns last week about how a compressor before and after EQ are two totally different sounds, as is EQ before/after a compressor. Try out different combinations yourself and see what happens!
 
I used a DBX 161 and a Orban 424 in the 80,s thru 95. Got a Distressor and use it 4:1 a= 4 r=4 last about 3-8 db of compressing while tracking and using a focusrite red plug in 4:1 about 1-6 dbs during mix if needed. If a word or section is low or high I will shade the track in pro tools and adjust the gain again if needed. Often I won,t need to automate the vocal levels during mix. The important thing is to get a good vocal level and performance. This would mean one without distortion using not enough compression or too loud a level or too much compression that sounds too crushed. Some engineers like using a slower tube compressor followed by a quick limiter. Finally to answer your question do they make 2 compressors in 1. Yes they do. Many of the compressors have a compressing section and a limiter section too.
 
There are many situations in which multiple compressors are helpful, and pop vocals is a particularly good place since you want virtually no dynamic variation (sigh). But I have to say that 8:1 is an awfully high ratio. With 8:1, why bother with the second compressor? Generally you would be much better served with two compressors at 2:1-4:1 ratios each doing 2-3db of gain reduction than one compressor with an 8:1 ratio.

And the comment above about using compressors before and after EQ is really important, and I feel like many don't understand this. You generally want to apply subtractive EQ before compression, and additive EQ after it. Often the compressor will dull the sound out a bit, and so you can compensation with a second round of EQ afterwards to brighten it back up. Etc.
 
I'm experimenting around and can hear 8:1 is way too much ratio. I've also experimented with eq before and after compression. It seems to make sense.
 
Another thing to think about is fader riding. You can either do it manually/automation or I noticed Waves has one that will do a detection and ride it for you. Since we are in DAWs and have a lot more options, you can cut a lot of peaks and valleys with simple volume control.

Just FYI in case you didn't think about that option as well.
 
DM60 said:
Another thing to think about is fader riding. You can either do it manually/automation or I noticed Waves has one that will do a detection and ride it for you. Since we are in DAWs and have a lot more options, you can cut a lot of peaks and valleys with simple volume control.

Just FYI in case you didn't think about that option as well.
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THIS. Especially if there are one or two or a few peaks that just stick out beyond where you feel comfortable compressing the rest of the track. There is no need to squash then entire track (beyond where you want to be) to catch a few outliers. Just go in and automate the fader for these.
 
banjo71 said:
I'm experimenting around and can hear 8:1 is way too much ratio. I've also experimented with eq before and after compression. It seems to make sense.
Click to expand...

I have mixed using the 2 compressor set up, and yes the 8:1 does work on the 1st compressor followed by an easier second compressor. The trick is that the 8:1 compressor only should compress the odd loud peak, not slam the track. The second compressor smooths the levels out. The reason this works is that the 1st compressor stops the 2nd compressor getting hit by the loud peaks and therefore the second compressor operates in a much more invisible way.

I read about this a few years ago and thought it was never going to work, but it does work especially if the singer is one of these singers that has a hugh attack on the words then the voice power drops away quickly.

You do need to experiment with this technique to get it to work correctly, and I do not use it all the time, only when required.

Cheers
Alan.
 
I agree with Brian and Alan. Altho 8:1 is high, running the second compressor gently seems like a useful solution. Over-compressing is noticeable, and usually not pleasant to the ear. Proper compression is not blatantly noticeable, but it's necessary. We (myself included) need to remember to think of compression not as an effect, but as a leveling tool. Of course, it can be used as an "effect" as long as it's at the right time and place, but that's a different level of the subject.
 
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