Vintage guitars

Tadpui

Tadpui

Well-known member
I've never been much of a vintage guitar buff in the past. But for some reason, I've been pining over a vintage '65 Jazzmaster for a long time now. I think it's Nels Cline's fault :) Something about the offset body style that I just love, I can't explain it. It must be that same attraction that classic car buffs have. 1965 seems to be a good balance between vintage and cost. Any earlier and the prices skyrocket. Any later and they're squarely in the CBS era. Even though CBS owned Fender in '65, I read that they were still using all of the same tooling machines and equipment, that not much had changed by that point. I'm not up enough on my Fender history to know if that's true or not.

Anyways, I found one today, and the price is right in line with an instrument of this vintage and condition. It's gorgeous. It's all-original and in excellent condition. Just a couple of knicks, which is incredible for a guitar that's 11 years older than I am. Even the frets look good, which makes me think they've been redone at some point. That's the only restoration that doesn't bother me...it would suck to have a beautiful instrument with crappy worn-down frets (hell, my 1998 LP is almost there!).

I may just be trying to talk myself into buying it, but I had to vent to the guitar geeks here a bit first. Have you ever bought a vintage instrument?
 
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Vintage instruments rock.
If you find a good one that speakes to you, and you can afford it, go for it.
One thing I would recommend if you have only casual knowledge is to have someone else with more knowledge look at it before plunking down the coin.
Because of the "modular" nature of Fenders, there are quite a bit of Frankenstein fenders out there.

This wont hurt anything for a player, but for potential resale isn't good.

But overall, old wood rocks!
 
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What's vintage, 20 years?
I think I've only ever bought 2 guitars that were younger than that..
 
Reverb.com seems to list pre-1980 as vintage. I'm not sure if they slide that mark each year or what.

I've always been a buy-it-new guy, knowing that my guitars will most likely still be with me until I die. I don't tend to buy/sell/trade, I find the one that I like and stick with it. Although I did trade in my old Charvel 475 towards my Les Paul. Best decision ever :)

RFR,
Good suggestion to have someone else check it out. This is a listing on Reverb, the seller is in Atlanta. I'm not sure what kind of vetting sellers go through on Reverb, but I tend to trust them to a point. I'll see what all kinds of verificaton I can get from them before I even come close to pulling the trigger.
 
For awhile, my 2 main gits were a '63 Duo Sonic and a '77 Gibson "The SG". I still have them- total cost for both combined was under $600, both separate person-to-person sales 5 years apart. And my bass is a '71 Univox Mosrite clone. Also had a few 60s/70s guitars of the Teisco/Silvertone variety. But I've never paid big $$$ for something that was already widely considered collectable when I bought it.
 
Not too much vetting .I would seriously check if there is a 48 hour return policy. A picture can lie like a junkie needing a fix.

A buddy bought a replica korina v. Looked great in the pics He paid 5k for it. When he got it the strings were falling off the F/B on the high side and the abr bridge was ground down on the bottom to compensate for lack of neck angle.
So the neck was mounted at two completely wong angles.
The seller was actually a pretty reputable vintage seller, but had a no retun policy.
Currently, that guitar is getting a new neck.
But in pics, they way they were shot at the right angles, did not show the problems.

So, check if they will honor a return, and ask for pics of the neck pocket, the neck heel. (should have the dates there) and ask for the pot codes. That stuff will tell you a lot, and if the seller is willing to go to the trouble, it will show they have nothing to hide. (More or less)
 
I agree to get someone to check it out if you're not pretty knowledgeable on these guitars.
Well, let me qualify that. If you are about to pay the market value that an all original desireable vintage guitar would bring. If you are paying what a refinished original body with an original neck and some after market parts and electronics would bring....then I say go for it and you wouldn't have to be so careful.

on vintage strats you REALLY have to be careful. You can she'll out 12 grand for a refinished partscaster that would only fetch 5 grand.

I've seen some well done clones that would even fool vintage strat buffs.

Vintage jazzmasters aren't fetching the high bucks that vintage strats are. So, they aren't being cloned as much which means you are a lot less likely to get a forged one.
Also, the price difference between the value of an all original one and a refinished one with a few after market parts isn't nearly as vast. So, while a mistake on the originally of a high dollar strategy could cost you several thousand dollars in terms of resale, the same mistake on a vintage jazz master would be a few hundred.
By the way, I think Jazz masters are really cool guitars....I wish you good luck and I hope you land a nice one!
 
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One of the problems with vintage fenders is not so much the cloning aspects, but the cannibalism of the parts. In the 80s a lot of parts thievery went on. Sometimes whole perfectly good guitars were parted out, cause that fetched more than the value of the guitars.
As the prices started going up, that practice stopped, but people were now putting them together again.
So, while a guitar may have all 62 or 65 parts, they may not be the parts it left the factory with, making it not original. Of course there is nothing wrong with that, but it should be disclosed and priced to reflect that.
A lot of parts you're never going to be able to tell that they are not original to the instrument, provided they are from the same period. Such as tuners, pick guards, etc. But the neck and body dates, neckplate, and the pot codes should jive. Also get a good pic of the solder joints. If they look messed with, chances it's been apart.
Personally, I wouldn't buy vintage off of pics unless the price was right or the dealer was stellar in reputation.

Anyway, not trying to scare you off, just saying you should be thorough in your research. Its not like a car where you have carfax to help you find out the history.
Hope it turns out great!
 
For vintage guitars there are a host of issues that creep up in some specimens and not other over the years, so I would say do not ever buy a vintage instrument without sitting down and inspecting/playing it, and if possible have the sale contingent on inspection by your luthier after the purchase. Also, a guitar that is dinged up and has had three sets of frets on it is likely going to be in better mechanical condition than one that looks like it came off the assembly line, because one sat in a case under a bed or in an attic somewhere, and the other was played and maintained. Add to that the fact that no two guitars are exactly the same when new, especially acoustics, and you have a recipe for buying a guitar that looks good on paper but is uninspiring or costly when it is in your hands.

To me, it is vintage if it is appreciating instead of depreciating. That caveat there is sometimes the market gets flooded with a certain year/model and it drives down prices for a year or two while the overall trend is still upwards.
 
Good points fellas. I'm going to contact the seller (looks like a guy selling out of his home, which makes me a little wary). I'll check his return policy, and I do plan on bringing the instrument to a local shop for inspection. Thanks!
 
If it was me, and I was looking for a vintage jazz master to play....I wouldn't try to get a 100% all original collecter grade '65 jazzmaster. I would look and see what a finished one....maybe not all 100% original parts...wad going for on ebay. Then I would try to get the best I could get in that price range. That was you would get a nice vintage vibe, not be afraid to take it out, and get your money back out of it if you decide to move it on down the line at some point.
 
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It's on its way, fellas:

JazzMasterSmall.jpg

All-original '65 Jazzmaster. The seller was very accommodating with my questions and requests for pictures. Just enough dings in the finish to make me feel totally fine about playing the hell out of it and not worrying. I'm not hard on guitars since I don't gig or tour or anything, but I'd still hate to be the first person to ding a 50-year-old finish. I don't put guitars behind a glass case and just look at them...I wanted a player.

And now the part comes where I worry about a guitar being shipped out of Atlanta in the summer...

Thanks for your input, everybody. You really armed me with the info that I needed to make an informed purchase. I'll report back when it's in my hands and I've had a chance to give it a once-over.
 
A premature congrats!!! Looks great!!!
Happy New Guitar Day, and may you enjoy it for years to come.
 
That looks really nice, Tad. Looking forward to a report back on it. Do you mind telling how much you paid for it? I'm sorting out my tax return at the moment to work out if I can invest in a seriously nice guitar. Considering a custom design, vintage/modified hot tele or a Jag.

Considering that "Vintage" is pre 1980, I've worked out that they are a pain in the arse to sell if its not something well known. I think I am stuck with my Washburn even though it makes the right side of my upper spine and neck ache when I play it!
 
JDOD said:
That looks really nice, Tad. Looking forward to a report back on it. Do you mind telling how much you paid for it? I'm sorting out my tax return at the moment to work out if I can invest in a seriously nice guitar. Considering a custom design, vintage/modified hot tele or a Jag.

Considering that "Vintage" is pre 1980, I've worked out that they are a pain in the arse to sell if its not something well known. I think I am stuck with my Washburn even though it makes the right side of my upper spine and neck ache when I play it!
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Reverb has the price range for '65 Jazzmasters as $3000-$4200. This was square within that range, and thankfully not at the high end even though it's in terrific condition.

I've seen your pics of that Ibanez. It's a cool guitar, I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get rid of it. The dual-humbucker solidbody is a sound that will come in handy time and time again, especially since you lean towards heavier guitar tones. It's a good guitar to have in the arsenal, unless you end up with something really similar to it.
 
nice looking guitar!
Man, I love the rosewood on those old fender fretbords. Look at how dark it is. it almost looks like ebony. That's how the fretboard on my '66 looks. you can't find dark rosewood like that on modern guitars without having to special order it and paying through the nose for it.

Also, I love those mid/late 60s 3 color fender

you did good bro. A copy of that guitar from the custom shop would set you back more than you have in that one.
nice score.
 
jimistone said:
nice looking guitar!
Man, I love the rosewood on those old fender fretbords. Look at how dark it is. it almost looks like ebony. That's how the fretboard on my '66 looks. you can't find dark rosewood that that on modern guitars without having to special order it and paying through the nose for it.

Also, I love those 3 color fender burst.

you did good bro. A copy of that guitar from the custom shop would set you back more than you have in that one.
nice score.
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Thanks man! Yeah that was back when Brazil was still freely exporting rosewood. I've never played on a Brazilian rosewood fretboard before, so this will be a nice first for me. Not that I'm expecting it to feel like sex for the fingers or anything, but it's a cool first nonetheless.

I eyed the '65 reissue that the custom shop is offering. But when it came down to it, I wanted the true vintage. Those pickups, that sunburst, the headstock and the clay dot inlays...I just had to have the real thing. It's my first piece of vintage gear!
 
Tadpui said:
Reverb has the price range for '65 Jazzmasters as $3000-$4200. This was square within that range, and thankfully not at the high end even though it's in terrific condition.

I've seen your pics of that Ibanez. It's a cool guitar, I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get rid of it. The dual-humbucker solidbody is a sound that will come in handy time and time again, especially since you lean towards heavier guitar tones. It's a good guitar to have in the arsenal, unless you end up with something really similar to it.
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Cheers, sounds like that's out my price range, it seems to be the next step up. I'm floating around the £1500-£2000 price bracket for my "dream guitar".

Don't know if its the same in the US, but in the UK you seem to have 3 distinct price brackets for decent instruments. £500 to about £900 would be your first "decent" guitar, still manufactured in the far east but well made and too a good spec. Then you've got the £900 or so to £2000 bracket which tends to be the really authentic quality guitars.. Then over £2000 for anything really custom or with a genunine bit of history.

I probably will hang on to the Ibanez a) its not worth enough to give me any serious money towards anything else, b) it might come back into fashion one day.
 
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