Step up from M-Audio BX5a

[BeniRose]

Hey all. One of my trusty M-Audio BX5a's has started to crap out on me. I replaced them for the time being with a pair of BX5s, but I thought maybe I should upgrade. Is there anything that's a reasonable step up that I might be able to acquire for under 800/pair? Or should I stick with the BX5s for now and save up? Are the Event 20/20s still good?

 

[Pinky]

Events are okay for the price, but you could be just as happy with something like the 8" Yamahas.

Like you I went from the 5" to 8" driver, and still found the lowest frequencies lacking. But definitely a nice improvement with a 8" woofer.

 

[CoolCat]

if you can swing a sub in your room why not, the BX5 and a sub would be sweet. some pro's like CLA use cheap subs with their smaller shelf speakers. I had the exp of BX5, and then added a sub and it was really really a whole new sound system. very nice match....

 

[Pinky]

I found that even with a sub the bx5's were lacking in low-mid definition. With the 8" monitors I have now I still use the same sub, but only for 80hz and lower frequencies, a range that the monitors claim to handle but do so poorly IMO. I mix and produce a lot of bass heavy music so it's important I hear those frequencies.

So in comparison, I found the 5" drivers too small and the overall sound from the bx5's to be too empty (?), but with the larger (and better) monitors the stereo field (stage) is much larger and the definition brighter. For $200 the bx5's are good, but for $500+ there's larger solutions that blow them out of the water. If you don't have a choice, then by all means get a used sub and figure out how to get them working together (watch for phase issues), otherwise spend the coin to get the sound you likely desire.

I found my Samson Resolv A8 monitors on sale at Newegg as a refurb for $250 shipped for the pair. It was a bit of a gamble. They turned out to be like new, may have just been a return. Sound great, even for $500/pair normal cost. Just an example of what to look for. There's a lot of smaller brands making monitors now, and are likely using similar internal parts, speakers, and even enclosures. I compared these with the couple 8" monitors Guitar Center had (I think Yamaha and M-Audio) and the Samson sound as good, if not better, than most there.

 

[CoolCat]

I found that even with a sub the bx5's were lacking in low-mid definition. With the 8" monitors I have now I still use the same sub, but only for 80hz and lower frequencies, a range that the monitors claim to handle but do so poorly IMO. I mix and produce a lot of bass heavy music so it's important I hear those frequencies.

So in comparison, I found the 5" drivers too small and the overall sound from the bx5's to be too empty (?), but with the larger (and better) monitors the stereo field (stage) is much larger and the definition brighter. For $200 the bx5's are good, but for $500+ there's larger solutions that blow them out of the water. If you don't have a choice, then by all means get a used sub and figure out how to get them working together (watch for phase issues), otherwise spend the coin to get the sound you likely desire.

I found my Samson Resolv A8 monitors on sale at Newegg as a refurb for $250 shipped for the pair. It was a bit of a gamble. They turned out to be like new, may have just been a return. Sound great, even for $500/pair normal cost. Just an example of what to look for. There's a lot of smaller brands making monitors now, and are likely using similar internal parts, speakers, and even enclosures. I compared these with the couple 8" monitors Guitar Center had (I think Yamaha and M-Audio) and the Samson sound as good, if not better, than most there.

You begin to lose the upper mids where vocal freq live with the 8", 5" is very common, 6" for that reason.

 

[Pinky]

You begin to lose the upper mids where vocal freq live with the 8", 5" is very common, 6" for that reason.

I would be curious to know if this is a make/model issue or anecdotal. This is the first I've heard of any particular frequency drop/loss across the board based on driver size.

I'm certainly not experiencing any loss anywhere in the 100hz to 20khz band. My manufacturer's own documentation shows a pretty flat response as well.

Here's a test on the Event 20/20 8" monitors, looks pretty flat to me (other than the colored bass, which is a known property of those particular monitors). :-/



http://www.pagemac.com/azure/speaker_measure.php

He tests several other monitors. The high frequency drop is because of testing methodology, not an issue with all the speakers he tests.

"I had to position the microphone away from the tweeter, which is why the high frequencies appear to drop out. Higher frequencies are just more directional"

 

[CoolCat]

I would be curious to know if this is a make/model issue or anecdotal. This is the first I've heard of any particular frequency drop/loss across the board based on driver size.

I'm certainly not experiencing any loss anywhere in the 100hz to 20khz band. My manufacturer's own documentation shows a pretty flat response as well.

Here's a test on the Event 20/20 8" monitors, looks pretty flat to me (other than the colored bass, which is a known property of those particular monitors). :-/

View attachment 84717

PageMac: Azure's Realm

He tests several other monitors. The high frequency drop is because of testing methodology, not an issue with all the speakers he tests.

"I had to position the microphone away from the tweeter, which is why the high frequencies appear to drop out. Higher frequencies are just more directional"

Im not a physics major, but the size is a major part of the freq it can reproduce. Tweeters, hi freq, fast, while bass are large in general, mid range are 4-5-" typically set for those frequency ranges.

Theres also the near filed, far field, which is why a lot of nearfields are 5-6-8, and not 12's-15's etc...those are farfields.
Thats my take.

The nearfields of the old days Auratones were mimicing a old car radio speaker, the Yamaha NS10's were mimicing a average stereo speaker of the 70's-80's...

if you go 4" you get less bass, 5" a little more, 6-7-8 more bass but lose some upper freq's....go 15" you're probably in far field territory and wouldnt be so hot sitting on your desk.

Ethan Winer has a great intro for setting up monitors, 3ft triangle etc.. he uses 8" Mackies. ..but some do 6". I think theres some fine hairs being split. Ive had 5's, 6's and 8's and the 6"s are kind of in the middle. With technology today theres some crazy stuff done with ports and cabs and amps and bass with smaller sized drivers too.


this is one of my favorites:
RealTraps - How To Set Up a Room

 

[Pinky]

We're definitely in the near field realm with studio monitors. I wasn't aware that 8" drivers are always a problem in the "upper mids where vocal freq live", as was suggested. I'm still not finding any information online regarding 8" monitors having an issue in the upper mids. I think the loss you eluded to with increased speaker size must be above those frequencies and handily covered by the tweeter. It would stand to reason that an 8" driver being used in anything calling itself a 'studio monitor' should be so well made it covers the upper mid frequencies fine.

 

[CoolCat]

We're definitely in the near field realm with studio monitors. I wasn't aware that 8" drivers are always a problem in the "upper mids where vocal freq live", as was suggested. I'm still not finding any information online regarding 8" monitors having an issue in the upper mids. I think the loss you eluded to with increased speaker size must be above those frequencies and handily covered by the tweeter. It would stand to reason that an 8" driver being used in anything calling itself a 'studio monitor' should be so well made it covers the upper mid frequencies fine.

the science of speakers goes far beyond the surface. don't think of it as "always a problem", but from a speaker design perspective (if you have interest in the science of speakers). theres an ocean of info available to why speaker designers use different cones and sizes, and all the metals etc..

and in the end its personal taste to some extent....however you wont get much bass from a small tweeter and you wont get the best high freqs from a 15".

if you like 8" that's great, 6.5 is cool imo, 5" are pretty light on the bass but with a sub, can really come to life.

ill just add a mixing guy had some great stuff, turns out he was using the Yamaha HS5" and a sub..so to each their own I guess.

 

[BeniRose]

JBL LSR305 5" Active Studio Monitor | Sweetwater.com

Can anyone recommend these JBL monitors, they are currently buy one get one half off? Would they be a step up or about the same as my M-Audios? Also, I'm hesitant to get the 8" because my room is already a bit bass-y so I'm worried 8" will push it too far. I've been pretty happy with the 5 inch sound, I prefer things to be flat and not get an overrepresentation of the low end.

 

[CoolCat]

I dont know if it would be a step up?
My understanding is the low end is the more difficult to deal with. But like Ethan mentioned, we can be sticking our heads in the sand avoiding dealing with the low end by using smaller speakers. (and rooms)

Upgrading is usually 2 things, imo, your searching for better results or your just tired of the item.
Going from one $150 speaker to another might get you something you prefer, but thats not really better,imo.

If you want different, you could work on the room and get a sub, that way you can go back to 5" only or check with the sub when you want and your room will always sound better.

Ive had a bunch of different setups, 4,5,6,8,subs.. and it was all personal preference really, and I liked trying out monitors. But listening to people who can really mix well, it seems the choices are all over the place. Like I said Ive heard great stuff done on the HS5" with a sub recently. A lot of people have used the Yamaha NS10's etc..etc..

I have two rooms right now, and one is like a closet, the other can handle a sub. Ive even heard some mix engineers chop off 80hz down on everything. Recently I dusted off some Optimus 7's and plugged them in and have listened to these, someone supposedly did a Gold Record using these cheap things once!

I was just looking at used KRK V4 and a KRK sub for $200, then I thought why? I already have 4 sets or more of speakers now... lol ...why keep buying the same thing?