Newb questions on starting up, Acoustic Guitar + Vocals.

[Houda]

Hi all, I'd like to apologise in advance for my very newb questions and if this has already been answered (means i failed trying to search the forums lol).
anyways...

Id like to record my acoustic guitar + vocals, im guessing i would be using two microphones for this, one for the guitar itself and one for the vocals, unless of course i record them separately then overlap them. Am i going to require a interface? I'm wanting the mics to record to my laptop/desktop, most likely to audacity or something or rather. I cant afford pro tools (and apparently you need special equipment for it to record anyway?) so if i do need an interface what kind of interface would i be needing?

Would i get something like the PreSonus FireStudio Mobile FireWire Audio Interface, im guessing i would need two inputs? unless i would need more? maybe a couple more would be nice incase i do a duo with a friend or something

I'm very new at all this recording business so i really don't know much about these things at all.
Ive also seen Usb Microphones, would this be a better way of going about recording?
Secondly would anyone like to recommend some mic's for the above setup? price range of $200 or lower.
Is this actually the way to go about doing things? or is there something that I'm missing?

Ive got a Yamaha CPX500II incase anyones wondering

I greatly appreciate any help anyone offers, Thankyou!

ps. sorry if this is in the wrong section

 

[wtfuhz]

That presonus firestudio would work, but most recording software only lets you use one interface at a time. Since that particular interface has two inputs, you'd be limited to those two inputs, but if you hooked up a mixer with more inputs, you could record more inputs at a time but it would still only come out as two tracks. USB mics usually don't sound nearly as good as a normal mic because they have their soundcards built into them, which are usually really cheaply made. I find that they sound much harsher and brittle than pretty much any other kind of mic. Now about mic choices, since your guitar is electric-acoustic, it might be a good idea to use a direct input on it and use as much money as you can on a nice large diaphragm mic for vocals and then save up for a guitar mic when you can. BUT if you're like me and has to have a mic on your guitar, a small diaphragm condenser would be my mic of choice.

Hope I helped!

 

[jamintravis]

It's alright to have these questions! I don't consider myself anywhere near a pro, or even an amateur. I've done recordings with professionals before and also with home recording engineers, and I've done some of my own recordings as well, and I primarily do acoustic work. I have a lot to learn about mixing and such. I have a decent handle on the basics of recording techniques, but I lack what most would consider to be "good" equipment, and it does hinder you at times. However, for the purpose of demoing your material if you're not looking for label attention or anything of that nature, it isn't all that costly to get a somewhat decent sound. My first question for you is whether you are running a PC or a Mac. I've worked with both, and I much prefer my Mac. Unforunately, I moved back down to Florida about a year ago after spending some time in Pennsylvania. I couldn't afford to have all my stuff shipped back down here, so my Mac is still sitting in a friend's closet up there. Anyway, enough about my life story. If you're using a Mac, DO NOT hesitate to use Garageband. A lot of people undermine the program as being too basic and incapable, but in reality, it's a solid program. It comes with some decent built-in editing and effects features that will do the trick for simple projects, and it can handle most other AU and VST plugins. The majority of home demos I've recorded on my own were done in Garageband with a M-Audio Fast Track USB interface. It has one XLR (regular mic cable) input and one 1/4" instrument input, and it's pretty inexpensive. When I bought mine it came with PC-based software that you can use, but I'm not sure if they still package it that way. If you go that route and they still have the software, use it if you have a PC. It's not very extensive, but it does the job and it's definitely better than Audacity. Otherwise, I recommend Reaper as another free recording program. You can download it for both Mac and PC. For a microphone, I use a Shure SM57. It's a basic dynamic microphone that's probably not really meant for acoustic stuff and clean vocals, but it's a solid microphone for a cheaper price and it will do just fine for what you're looking for. I generally record guitar and vocals separately. This helps you focus on performing each part of the song (guitar or vocals respectively) to the best of your ability, and it prevents the bleed of different sounds onto a track. When you're mixing a guitar track, you don't want to be able to hear the vocals in it, and vice versa. The more isolated each sound is, the more control you have over it. I usually record 2 takes of each guitar part (2 rhythm tracks, 2 leads, or whatever you're doing). It's easier and more effective if you have an interface that can track 2 microphones at once, but it sounds like you're on a budget like I am, so here's how I do it: I place the microphone about 6-8 inches away from the guitar, pointed slightly downward at an angle so you can draw an imaginary line in the air from the microphone to where the neck meets the body of the guitar. It's good to experiment with distances and angles. Everything reacts differently depending on your mic, your guitar, the room, etc. Then I record the second take of the same part with the microphone about 6-8 inches away from the guitar at an angle facing the bridge of the guitar. I usually double up on the vocals, too. There's really a lot to tell that can't be explained just by typing it out on here. Most of it is trial and error. You will learn as you go along and try different things. Keep posting on here and asking questions. Talk to any other musicians or recording engineers you come in contact with and have them help you and critique what you're doing.

Check out my page on Reverbnation. I'm working with a professional right now to track my first official EP release, but I have demos up here. Every song on the page except "The Matchbox" was recorded at home using the techniques I just told you about.

 

[jamintravis]

Sorry, I forgot to link you to the page- go to Reverbnation and search for "Jamin Travis"

 

[Justsomeguy]

That presonus firestudio would work, but most recording software only lets you use one interface at a time. Since that particular interface has two inputs, you'd be limited to those two inputs, but if you hooked up a mixer with more inputs, you could record more inputs at a time but it would still only come out as two tracks

Technically the firestudio mobile has 8 analogue in's and 4 analogue outs, but only has 2 inputs with preamps so to use the rest you'd need external pre's, but the 4 outputs come out as a pair from the headphone out and a pair from the main outs. This was actually the route i went when upgrading from a 2 input interface as i have a rack of external pre's but wanted something super portable that i could sling in a bag and still have two great sounding inputs. i record a lot of mobile stuff so when working in small rooms i can set up a main headphone mix for the artist from the headphone out and, with a little fiio headphone amp, setup a different headphone mix using the universal control software that comes with it to go out the main outs for me to monitor through.

tbh, when i was looking for interfaces i just needed as many inputs as possible but didn't need built in pre's as i i have external ones so the firestudio works great for me, but in the price range there's a lot of great one's with 2 or 4 in's that may suit you better.

When i was looking the one's that caught my eye were the focusrite scarlett 8i6, Akai EIE, and the Maudio fast track ultra. the focusrite is 4 in's on two preamps and two line in's but has an optical input if you want to expand to another 8 inputs with external preamps on optical outs. the Akai is 4 in's and 4 out's and 4 inserts. i was very very tempted by it as it also acts as a 3 way usb hub and am i sucker for VU meters but needed more in's in my case. the maudio was the most expensive on my list at £280 and only didn't buy it because i spent more money on mic's than i should've in my budget (i'm a sucker for mic's but it was well worth it). 6 in's with 4 preamps and 6 line in's, 6 outputs and 2 headphone outs which would've been perfect for alot of what i do, and great for playing/recording as a duo. oddly enough when i was upgrading a friend was doing the same and he ended up with fast track ultra after i said what i was looking at and he loves it.

in terms of software, the firestudio comes with presonus studio one artists (stripped down version of their main DAW) and the maudio comes with protools MP9 (again, a slightly stripped down version of protools but apparently still very good), or look at Reaper which is dirt cheap and very very versatile.

also, are you using a PC or Mac? i only ask because firewire on pc's seem to be hit and miss (search the forums as there are discussions about which firewire chipsets windows based pc's work best for audio) although i've never had any problems with firewire on mac's. saying that, alot of the new usb interfaces are absolutely fine.

in terms of mic's, it's a tough one. in your budget you could buy two ok mic's with which you could record vocals and guitar at once or you could pick up a slightly more expensive one that should work for both, but you'd have to record the parts separately. the MXL 990 and 991 package is ok and would let you record both parts at once. otherwise, in terms of two mic's i think you'd be hard pushed on your budget to find something great. if you went with one mic then there's more options that would work well on both vocals and acoustic guitars, such as:

sE X1
sE2200a
MXL V67
Rode NT1a
Rode NT2a
AKG C214
Avantone CK6

the biggest benefit of the sE X1 is that there's some package deals with a pop shield and reflextion filter that are well worth having. seeing as you've not mentioned room treatment etc i'm making the assumption you don't have any (please correct me if i'm wrong) so a duvet/thick blanket/mattress and reflection filter combo would help get cleaner vocal recordings at home

i've probably missed something but i hope that helps

 

[mjbphotos]

Before buying anything, please read the sticky-ed threads at the top of this section of the forum - Introduction to Computer Recording and Newbie FAQs

 

[Armistice]

Jeez... so many words..

Get an interface. Get Reaper (don't bother with Audacity) or if you get free software with your interface try that as well. Don't get USB microphones. Start with the best LDC you can afford (see justsomeguy's list). Record acoustic guitar and voice separately, and if your guitar has a pickup, take a line in from that as well.

Buy, record, listen, learn, record, listen, learn, record, listen, learn... and you'll get there.

Just make sure you get a platform appropriate interface (ie. Mac/PC). To seriously record anything, especially actual instruments, a pair of monitors are also handy, however you may be able to start with less than stellar quality here, or even hi fi speakers, depending upon your ears..

 

[Houda]

Wow thanks for all the responses , im using a PC (Windows). But this will sound stupid but... what's a preamp? you guys go on about things having x amount of inputs x amount of pre amps i have no idea what that is. For the interface really all i would need is 2? one for the guitar(would it matter if i connected the guitar directly or used a mic?) and one for the vocal mic.

M-Audio Fast Track Usb looks pretty good, its only got 2 input/output from what i can see? so that means i could record guitar and vocals seperetly or together. Recording seperately isnt a big deal what you said about the bleed does make sense

Edit: oh and what difference would analog/digital inputs have? I know analog is the old way of doing things? so im guessing i should just get a digital?, sorry i am completly lost when it comes to this stuff and my friends... well lets say they arnt exactly the music recording type

Edit 2: Im reading the introduction to multitracking, seems to be answering most of my questions. I will finish up reading it after ive completed my GAT (general assessment test) not sure if anyones familar with it since im australian.

Edit 3: Oh and about room treatment no i havent treated it yet, but i thought i would experiment ways after ive bought the equipment

 

[wtfuhz]

The preamps on that firestudio are the plugs on the front of it... well, that's what they look like anyways

 

[Houda]

Are there any similar audio interfaces to the M-Audio Fast Track?

 

[Justsomeguy]

What is a preamp?; a preamp is an amplifier that turns up the signal coming from the mic to a level that is much more usable.

What's the difference between analogue and digital in's and out's?; in simple terms, analogue inputs are inputs that you can plug a mic/line/instrument straight in to. digital inputs/outputs are things like SPDIF, Optical, ADAT. they work on signals that have already been converted into a digital signal. for example, some people use both an audio interface and external preamps so they can record more things at once. to make life easier, the external preamps may do all the A/D conversion first and then send that signal to the audio interface via an optical cable rather than having to have lots of extra analogue line inputs on the interface. in this case, the number of digital in's is how many channels of audio the interface can accept via an optical cable, i.e 4 digital in's would mean an interface can accept and extra four inputs via a digital cable. (it's very late, i hope that makes sense)

Room treatment; get on it asap. vocals, acoustic guitars, and mixing can be a nightmare in a poorly treated room

 

[Houda]

Thanks for the info im going to do a search around and see if i can get a Vocal mic + condenser mic with all the pop filters ect in a combo. Any reccomndations guys?
But i think i will end up going with the M-Audio Fast Track it seems to be exactly what i need

 

[Justsomeguy]

the biggest benefit of the sE X1 is that there's some package deals with a pop shield and reflextion filter that are well worth having. seeing as you've not mentioned room treatment etc i'm making the assumption you don't have any (please correct me if i'm wrong) so a duvet/thick blanket/mattress and reflection filter combo would help get cleaner vocal recordings at home

That's my 2 cents, but have a look around music stores as i'm sure there's some great bundles with stands, lead, pop filters etc that may be more suitable

 

[Houda]

That is looking like a very nice mic , il be posting up another thread in a minute about treating my room.

 

[mjbphotos]

Pop filters, cables and mic stands are cheap online, so don't get sucked into any 'package deal' until you have checked out individual prices and reviews.

 

[Houda]

Its funny you mention that i saw a package sE X1 *really they couldnt have thought up a better name than sex1?* anyways the package for the mic + plus the reflextion filter was $500, the mic on its own is about $200 and i saw the filter on its own for $100....
But yeah I plan to buy those things online especially since postage wouldn't be a huge problem.a

 

[Justsomeguy]

anyways the package for the mic + plus the reflextion filter was $500, the mic on its own is about $200 and i saw the filter on its own for $100....

wowzers! this side of the world the mic is £120 and with the reflection filter and pop shield it's £185! if i knew the mark up was that much down under i would've suggested something else!

 

[Houda]

Im still researching which mic il be getting, good thing I've got time haha

 

[Armistice]

Im still researching which mic il be getting, good thing I've got time haha

Avoid the Allans Music type places for this sort of stuff... I don't know who's good in Melbourne but you can always get better deals online and better advice as well. My experiences in Sydney with generalist music stores with attached "recording" sections is that there's an overuse of the word "awesome" to describe everything... There are exceptions of course. Bit of digging and you'll find them. Good luck.

 

[Houda]

Oh i only linked allens because it had a good image to it, il either buy online or try a couple of the smaller stores i know that are around.