low gain problem, yall.

[guitarmonkus]

Sorry to ask such a boring question:

I have an old M-Audio FastTrack (not the pro), and I am plugging my guitar into the guitar line on it, and then the USB to my laptop and into Reaper.

The problem: The guitar volume is very low. Not like, freakishly low, but nowhere near the max, and when I try to play it back with my EZdrummer beat, I have to turn that WAY down to not drown out the guitar.

I don't get it.


Thom

 

[Steenamaroo]

I'm not too familiar with ezdrummer but at a stab it would make sense for the samples to be processed to some extent.
I know addictive drums is louder than you'd want when you first open it up.

Once i record bass and a few guitars, I end up bring AD down to about 1/4 the starting volume.

Also, you say line in, but i guess you mean instrument input?
If it is genuinely a line input that'll be your problem.

Say you record the guitar, then use whatever effects you want and bring the level up in your software, does it sound bad? Is there noise?
If not, there's probably no real problem here.

Having to bring the drums down to meet the guitar isn't a bad thing at all.
People always bang on about leaving plenty of room above your master peaks and with good reason.

Let us know.

 

[guitarmonkus]

Yes I do mean the instrument input. It has a toggle switch that's a line in/guitar. I have the guitar toggle down.

The problem with using my own effects to bring the volume up is that I wanted to give some effects I have in Reaper a chance so I wanted a clean guitar sound.

I wouldn't mind bringing the drums down, but the guitar levels are SO low. If I built my recording around the guitar, I wouldn't be able to hear clearly what was going on.

Thanks for replying. I love Portal, also.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Ha, portal rocks.

How low are we talking then? Take your dry guitar recording, where does it peak with some 'normal' playing levels?


I'm not sure if we understand eachother right, but when i said about bringing the level up with effects, i meant in the box.
Like for arguments sake, if you recorded and it was too quiet, then you used a gain plugin, or the makeup of a compressor to bring the level up (with the threshold way up out of reach), would the signal degrade?

If not, we're ok.

Where is the gain knob on the maudio. I think it would effect line/inst input too.

 

[guitarmonkus]

Track 2 is my guitar track. It's recorded clean into my FastTrack with the Output at full blast. Notice there is barely even a noticeable WAV length recorded.

 

[guitarmonkus]

hmmm...a gain plugin you say. That's worth a shot right there. Thanks man.

 

[Steenamaroo]

And what about the gain knob on the maudio?
Is that what you meant by output?

 

[RAMI]

I'm not familiar with the software you're using. But, if I'm reading what I see right, you're recording on a stereo track. You should record mono instruments on a mono track.

Also, I'm not sure how much we can learn from what we see there. Most DAW's have an adjustable view. So just looking at a wave form that looks small doesn't really tell us anything. Can you tell us about what level your guitar peaks at, or even around what it averages.

Like STEEN said, there might not be a problem here. Your recorded tracks should come in way lower than most things you listen to on your computer. You have to trun up your monitors, not necessarilly record louder. In your first post, you said the guitar was "nowhere near maximum". That's actually where they should be, "nowhere near max". Even being generous, you shouldn't peak higher than -6db and even way lower than that is fine.

 

[guitarmonkus]

Yes the gain is all the way up on the interface.

Rami- you called it. The max is somewhere near -6. I guess there isn't a problem. I'm glad I posted here where the judging is limited.

Thank you!

 

[Steenamaroo]

Wow, the max is up near -6? And this is guitar only, not the master with drums etc?

Where the heck are the drums peaking then?!

If that's the case you're right, there's no problem here.

 

[RAMI]

Yes the gain is all the way up on the interface.

Rami- you called it. The max is somewhere near -6. I guess there isn't a problem. I'm glad I posted here where the judging is limited.

Thank you!

Cool. You're tracking at proper levels, man. Believe it or not, you can even track way lower. But, bottom line is, don't clip, stay way away from 0db.

Wow, the max is up near -6? And this is guitar only?

Where the heck are the drums peaking then?!

I think we're talking about his tracking levels, not mixing levels....or I might be mis-understanding what you're saying.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Well, just he said the guitar is way lower than the drums,

So if the guitar is actually peaking at -6, how high are the drums?

 

[RAMI]

Well, just he said the guitar is way lower than the drums,

So if the guitar is actually peaking at -6, how high are the drums?

Ah, I see.

 

[guitarmonkus]

Just out of curiosity, what should my drums be peaking at? I'm trying out this whole EZdrummer thing for the first time....obviously.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Well, what RAMI was saying about tracking levels is true, and it kind applies to mixing levels too.

Say you have guitars tracked so their peaking at -10, and the same with bass, and drums and vocals

obviously the sum of them will be way above that level with the faders untouched.



You'd wanna turn everything down until your master bus is peaking no where near 0.

A lot of people recommend -18 or so as a rough guide, but as long as you're nowhere near the red you'll be cool.



Basically, track each instrument so it's well clear of clipping, then mix them together so that the sum is also well clear of clipping.

 

[RAMI]

Just out of curiosity, what should my drums be peaking at? I'm trying out this whole EZdrummer thing for the first time....obviously.

STEEN's is the right answer.

But just to expand on it, it doesn't really matter where anything peaks, as long as nothing peaks anywhere near 0db (clipping), and that includes the master bus.

There are 2 processes that happen once you've recorded all your tracks. The first is mixing, the second is mastering. During mixing, the only thing you should worry about is getting a good sounding mixed song. The overall volume shouldn't be a concern, and it will be way lower than any CD or MP3 you listen to on your computer.

The next step is mastering, or as most of us home recorders should call it "smashtering". This is where you do a few little touch ups on the finished mix that you got from the Mixing process described above. One of those "touch-ups" is getting the overall volume up to what is vaguely referred to as "commercial levels".

So, bottom line is, while mixing the song, don't worry about the volume. Bring faders down, turn up your monitors, and just go for the best MIX you can.

Once you've done that, there are a few ways to take that finished mix's file and make it louder, usually with a limiter or 5.

 

[Steenamaroo]

That's it, 100%.

Now, run away with it before anyone else sees this thread. lol.

 

[mjbphotos]

Select the guitar track, then right click to get 'Item Processing', then select 'Normalize'.
You'll probably want to set up EZ Drummer with a basic template that puts all the 'mics' on their own faders in Reaper, so you don't have to open up the EZD mixer to make changes, then turn the group EZD fader down - it does load loud.
You can get all sorts of templates on the Toontracks forums.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Idk how much you read mj, but I doubt the OP needs to normalise.

 

[RAMI]

Select the guitar track, then right click to get 'Item Processing', then select 'Normalize'.

There's no reason to normalize. His levels are hot enough.