Is it necessary to have two overheads?

A

adema1226

New member
I'm trying to find a pair of overheads, stands, and preamps for around $300. I'm new to recording and am wondering if it's actually necessary to have two overheads (as I may not have enough money for two mics and preamps for each).

I looked around on the site and didn't find anything on this, although surely it has been posted somewhere. Also searched google but didn't find anything that really helped a lot.

Just wondering what some of you experienced guys think about this, and if by some chance anyone has a recording of a kit that used only one overhead, post it up.

Thanks for any help!

Just a side question: I won't have any room mics, so should I get large diaphragm condensers to sort of "double" as overheads and room mics?
 
What is it your are planning on recording? What gear do you have now? What type of music are you recording?
 
Haha sorry. Like I said, new to recording.

I've got an Alesis Multimix 8 USB FX, 4 dynamic mics for kick/snare/toms. I've only got four XLR inputs on the mixer but I've got an additional two line inputs. I was going to get two condensers to use as overheads, and a preamp for each (since all the XLR inputs on the mixer will be taken). I was going to use a TRS cable to go from the preamps to the line inputs on the mixer.

I generally play rock, but just record whatever genre I want at the moment. I just want to get the clearest sound out of the drums obviously. Unfortunately my mixer doesn't have the room for any additional mics after all four dynamics and two condensers - and because by budget is $300 I'm worried I might not even be able to buy 2 condensers and preamps for each + stands for each. That's why I'm asking if it's necessary for clear sound to have two overheads. I mean would one overhead do any good?

Once again, I'm new to recording... so I apologize if I can't really describe my situation well enough for anyone to help haha.
 
If you've only got 4 XLR ins on the Alesis, you shoud just do stereo overheads, kick and snare. You'll get more sonic mileage out of stereo overheads than individual tom mics. MXL603s are cheap and usable, and you can just use the pres in the Alesis...
 
fat_fleet said:
If you've only got 4 XLR ins on the Alesis, you shoud just do stereo overheads, kick and snare. You'll get more sonic mileage out of stereo overheads than individual tom mics. MXL603s are cheap and usable, and you can just use the pres in the Alesis...
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Thanks for your answer, but I'd really like to keep using my four dynamics. I guess it is "necessary" to have two overheads going by what you're saying. The only question now is small or large diaphragm? Keep in mind I won't be using room mics (if that even makes any difference). Don't know if I should get large diaphragm to make up for a lack of room mics.

Would my idea of going 1/4" from external preamp to line in on mixer work? I'm sure this is common sense to the experienced guys, but I ask this because no salesmen has ever suggested getting an external preamp to power additional XLR mics on my mixer. They always go straight to bigger mixer suggestions. I'm not sure if that's because they want a bigger sale or because my idea wouldn't work like I'm expecting.
 
fat_fleet said:
If you've only got 4 XLR ins on the Alesis, you shoud just do stereo overheads, kick and snare. You'll get more sonic mileage out of stereo overheads than individual tom mics. MXL603s are cheap and usable, and you can just use the pres in the Alesis...
Click to expand...

i'd completely agree with this. Bare in mind how many great drum recordings have been done with this kind of four mic setup. if you position the overheads well you'd be surprised how much toms you get in the overheads. things like the "recordermann" overhead setup can give a really balanced overall kit sound if you find that more standard overhead positions aren't working out.

Do you need stereo overheads? not at all! Is it advisable to have two overheads? normally yes. again, i've had great results with one overhead, snare and kick. although, again, if i had to only have three mic's i'd still tend to go for a pair of overheads and a kick mic.

Can you use external pre's into the line in's on the Multimix? yes, totally! we have a Multimix 16 which is 8 XLR in's and 4 stereo TRS in's. we've done whole band recordings using the 8 built in pre's and then another 8 external pre's into the line in's on the stereo channels. $300 may be optimistic for getting two mics, two external pres, two stands and two more xlr's but you may find some package deals so have a look around the internets :) in terms of cheap pre's, either a pair of the ART MP's or one of the Maudio Audiobuddies should come in about £80, and the MXL 603's are about £199 (no idea of price in dollars i'm afraid). there are cheaper SDC's which may work but the 603's get solid reviews. Saying that, if you could just use the four mic's in the multimix and not need the extra pre's, a pair of sE1a's or Oktava MK012's would give outstanding results for around the £250 mark.

Overheads as LDC's or SDC's; this will come down to personal preference/the kit/the room/recording setup etc. i use SDC's most of the time as they tend to be brighter and in cardioid tend to be more focused. however, i do sometimes grab a pair of LDC's if the room/kit sounds call's for it.
 
adema1226 said:
Thanks for your answer, but I'd really like to keep using my four dynamics.
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Because you have them doesn't mean you must use them. Put two aside and do as others have suggested, i.e. mike up kick and snare, and couple this with overheads.

adema1226 said:
I guess it is "necessary" to have two overheads going by what you're saying.
Click to expand...

Two provides yo with a good stereo picture. But you can get away with just one.

adema1226 said:
The only question now is small or large diaphragm? Keep in mind I won't be using room mics (if that even makes any difference).
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I, and many others, use SDC for overheads. However, LDCs also work just fine.
 
This forum is great. Thanks for the help everybody.

Justsomeguy said:
...Can you use external pre's into the line in's on the Multimix? yes, totally! we have a Multimix 16 which is 8 XLR in's and 4 stereo TRS in's. we've done whole band recordings using the 8 built in pre's and then another 8 external pre's into the line in's on the stereo channels...
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Justsomeguy,

Like I said, I have the Multimix 8 (4 XLR inputs and 2 stereo TRS ins). I noticed on the 5th channel, where the stereo line ins start, there is a left line in labeled "5" and a right line in labelled "6". Then the line ins are labelled "7" and "8" on the next channel over. I've been thinking by using external pres I would only be able to connect 6 mics total (one mic on the left line in for channel 5, and one mic on the left line in on the next channel over... but are you saying that I could connect two different mics to the left and right line inputs on each channel and actually use a total of 8 mics simultaneously?
 
adema1226 said:
but are you saying that I could connect two different mics to the left and right line inputs on each channel and actually use a total of 8 mics simultaneously?
Click to expand...

Exactly that :D

in your daw, if you use mono tracks, the computer see's all of the individual tracks so 5,6,7,8 will all be selectable as individual mono inputs.

We had the multi mix 16 setup with 8 mics in the standard xlr ins, and then 8 mic's going though 2 art mp's, a TLA quad pre, and 2 focusrite ISA220's for a full band recording. on the stereo channels for recording you still need the fader up on the desk to 0dB but then control the individual channel levels off the external pres. with the multimix 16 we had to turn the buffer up for it to keep up and the latency was crazy but because the band weren't using headphones and we were in the control room it was fine. just using the 8 built in pre's there was no problem with monitoring :)
 
There have been impressive uses of just one single omni for an entire kit. If placed correctly, there is no reason one OH won't work but finding that "sweet spot" will require some patience.
 
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