gating the 'under the snare' mic

[postalblue]

have you guys done it before?
does it help?
i'm asking because i don't have a gate, and i'd have to buy one if i wanted to do this, since i can't rent one anywhere near my location. so i'd like to hear from people who have done it.

 

[Tom Cram]

That would defeat the purpose of an "under-the-snare" mic. In the rare times I use a bottom mic, I'm mic'ing those snares to help bring out "ghost" strokes. I wouldn't then want to gate those strokes out.

Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com

"I should have been a plumber."
-Albert Einstein-

 

[postalblue]

i mean to mic the bottom to get more of the snares, and to gate it so as to control the rattle, and not add to much of it to the other snare mic. i do already mic the bottom of the snare, but i always too much of it. someone suggested gating it, and i'm thinking it might make for a tighter fuller sound, but i haven't it yet. the kind of music (or maybe it's the drummer) doesn't really have a lot of ghost strokes, so i'm not really worried about that.

 

[Tom Cram]

If you aren't using it to bring out the ghosts, ditch it, it's superfluous. If you aren't getting enough of the snares with the top mic you need to move it 'til you do. Or loosen the snares to get more rattle. Fix the problem at the front end, not the back end.


Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com

"I should have been a plumber."
-Albert Einstein-

 

[littledog]

It all depends on the style and tempo of the music. there have been times when i found it very helpful to gate the bottom of the snare mic - for instance, during a solo when the drummer is playing exclusively on the toms.

 

[timc]

gating under snare mic

Dear Tom,

I use an under snare mic in order to bring out more snap in the attack, much like hand claps, not to bring out ghost notes.

I first eq the under snare mic as if it was the only mic I was using. Trying to get it to sound as good as possible.

I then compress the under snare mic to make it dynamically very even and "thicker" sounding.

I then gate it very heavily with a very quick release time so it becomes a short "whack" type sound.

I then work on the top snare mic to make it sound as good as possible.

I then try blending a little of the under back in with the top snare mic. This usually sounds better for rock/r&b stuff than the top snare mic alone.

I wouldn't recommend it for jazz.

 

[Tom Cram]

Sheesh, you guys and your gates.

Call me crazy, but I like to mic it up right from the beginning. No gates allowed.


Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com

"I should have been a plumber."
-Albert Einstein-

 

[postalblue]

timc nailed it, tom. it's not for the detail in the playing, but for a little more body and snappiness. i haven't tried it, but from the results i got with the snares i could test, it appears that it's a decent solution for my case. i did mic the bottom of the snare before, but the rattle was kind of incontrollable. i'll have to find someone who can lend me a gate, or try this at a commercial studio, to see if it's what i need. thanks for the input, all of you.

 

[timc]

gating under snare mic

Another thing to remember is phase problems.

I set both mics, one above the other, pointng in the same direction parallel to the top and bottom heads rather than pointing at the spot where the drummer hits. This eliminates the need for reverse phasing the under snare mic and a thicker sound when the two mics are added together.

Sometimes for a thicker snare sound you can send the snare track out through a reamp to a miked guitar amp through a tube screamer and then gate the returned signal eq'ing it to fit and add a little of it back into the original

 

[chessrock]

Why the hell not gate the under-snare mic?

This is a rather silly debate. You guys bored or sumthin' ?

 

[jet-rocker]

Hey chessrock

*Gotta temporarily hijack this thread.*

Chess.... You live in Chi-town. Tell me about it. Does it totally rock??? I just got accepted at the University of Chicago Law School. I will NEED to rock to cure the law school rage....

I almost peed my pants being the blatz drinking hick that I am.

-Jett

 

[chessrock]

Re: Hey chessrock

Tell me about it. Does it totally rock???

Well, you'll never be hurting for things to do, and yes, I would say the summertime totally does rock; lots of block parties, and if you're in to baseball it's extremely fun to go to the cubs games. Well, even if you're not in to baseball, I guess.

The drawbacks: November through April. That and an unfortunately disproportionate guy to girl ratio at most parties, bars, etc. Sometimes it can be a downright sausage fest.

Congrats on getting accepted!

 

[darwin]

Sometimes it can be a downright sausage fest.

LOL!!! This gets my vote for quote of the year.

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

If you wanna get rid of the rattle, why don't gate the bottom with a key input from the top mic ?

 

[jet-rocker]

Hey chessrock

Sausage fest. Well, what can ya do. The weather won't phaze me, it'l probably seem downright balmy compared to Minneapolis.

Unless I get in to a New York or San Fran school, I'm leanin heavy towards the Hyde Park headquarters.

I hear a lot of nancies sayin that Hyde Park is the hood???? I've lived in some hoods. I have a feeling that hyde park isn't exactly Cabrini Green. And if there is just a touch of crime it lowers the rent.... Anyway.

-Jett

 

[postalblue]

If you wanna get rid of the rattle, why don't gate the bottom with a key input from the top mic ?

if only i could do that with the sparce equipment i have.

 

[timc]

gating under snare mic

Postal blue,

You could do what Stefan said by running the signal from the top mic back to the insert on your gate(if it has one). But this is unnecessary as both mics pickup the same snare hit at the same time.

As far as getting rid of rattle you really want to have the gate close much quicker than that or it begins to sound unnatural. By adjusting the gate while monitoring the summed snare mics you'll very quickly be able to hear a closing time that's appropriate.

The same is true for eq. You'll want to adjust the eq on the undersnare mic once the mics are summed so that it's only giving you the additional "snap" you need.

 

[postalblue]

got you on the input thing.
as for gate and eq settings, that's what i'm planning to do. i'll use the bottom mic just for the snap. i'll eq it properly for that.
i even made a cord to reverse the phase on the bottom mic, in case i need to.

 

[Doink]

Rather than try to "fix it in the mix" and add more steps to the signal chain and make it more complicated, why not just gaff tape the snares the head? That will keep them from rattling when the drum is not being hit. It will save you lots of time, energy, headaches, and will sound better than trying to gate it.

I like to have as many options as possible during mixdown, so I usually mic both the top and bottom, but I usually try to get the top mic to sound good before I add the bottom in. If and when I add the bottom, it's usually ends up being a good 10 dB lower than the top. But if it doesn't sound right doing it that way, then I try other ways until it sounds like it should.

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

Re: gating under snare mic

You could do what Stefan said by running the signal from the top mic back to the insert on your gate(if it has one). But this is unnecessary as both mics pickup the same snare hit at the same time.

But necessary if you're having trouble with the razzle from the underside of the snare when you play the toms.