EZDrummer or Superior Drummer - in terms of "ease of use"

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pure.fusion

New member
Hi all,

I've read around the forums. The massive thread on EZDrummer vs SD here that was great.

But I'm still lacking an understanding of the functionality of the two, specifically due to this page...

ttp://www.toontrack.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=104414&mpage=1&key=&#104414

.. where this guys mentions " if your mixing skills are not up to scratch then an EZX can come in very handy without compromising much".

I know EZ drummer and other drum software are set up for ease of use. I'd be happy to upsize to Superior Drummer for the "full sample pool" to help maximise the posibility of realistic drum sounds, but not if it requires "extra effort". I'd still want to choose a kit, choose and sound, and program.

Can anyone comment on the "mixing skills" thing? Is there something extra I have to do with Superior Drums?

Any help appreciated.

FM
 
Most of the extra features in SD are optional and don't really get in the way of basic functionality. You can just load up an EZX, select the specific sound for each drum, and go. The mixer section is a bit more complex and not quite as intuitive, but it's not unusable by any means. SD allows you to go deeper into editing individual drums, keyboard maps, and to mix and match drums from different EZX kits, but unless you purposely get into that crap it can work very much like EZD.
 
The difference between the 2 plugins from a utility point of view is pure function (ez drummer is 16 bit only, limited outputs, limited humanise function, and you can't add extra drums if you want to, no internal mixdown features, and no custom mapping all come to mind).

The difference between the 2 stock libraries is what we mean when we say if your not up for mixing go with ez. The stock library with superior is a much more natural unmixed drumset (although some really light mixing was done). Ez drummer libraries (with the exception of the country one) are all very processed and mix sounding, they are meant to sit in mixes well as is.

But yes, you can load ez drummer libraries in superior drummer. You can not load superior libraries in ez.
 
In terms of "hey I've got a song idea going and I want to drop in some drums quickly that will sound good with little or no mixing"

EZ drummer.

In terms of "hey I have a song ready to release and I want some good natural sounding drums to go over it that I will mix to taste"

Superior.
 
Guitargodgt said:
In terms of "hey I've got a song idea going and I want to drop in some drums quickly that will sound good with little or no mixing"

EZ drummer.

In terms of "hey I have a song ready to release and I want some good natural sounding drums to go over it that I will mix to taste"

Superior.
Click to expand...

Ooooh, we are getting close.

RE: Superior, what do you mean "Mix to taste" ? Are you saying that there *must* be some time spent to address mixing, or is this just a benefit in case you need to address sonic issues?

All my projects have evolved in the same way. Stock drums get loaded with simple indicitave patterns and specific drum parts where it will interact with the piece of music. Then towards the end, the drums are gone over thoroughly so that they sound as natural and human as the product will allow. So, now I have to address the kit mix somehow?

FM
 
pure.fusion said:
Ooooh, we are getting close.

RE: Superior, what do you mean "Mix to taste" ? Are you saying that there *must* be some time spent to address mixing, or is this just a benefit in case you need to address sonic issues?

All my projects have evolved in the same way. Stock drums get loaded with simple indicitave patterns and specific drum parts where it will interact with the piece of music. Then towards the end, the drums are gone over thoroughly so that they sound as natural and human as the product will allow. So, now I have to address the kit mix somehow?

FM
Click to expand...

I would say that you are almost always looking at mix time with superior. However, some of the mix packs aren't to bad. I thought the slate stuff was decent.
 
Don't know what you mean by "no external mixdown features". EZDrummer can and will send the individual "mics" out to separate tracks in the host. I haven't had any problem with just loading up Superior and rocking. Don't think that part of the workflow would change hardly at all.
 
I have EZ Drummer with DFH, Nashville, Latin and Pop! expansions. The big weakness IMO are the included midi loops, they have lots of variations on the same thing and sound somewhat sterile. The Pop! expansion has the best ones I think. I have some Groove Monkee loops and they sound much better. In fact, go to their site and you can download some free ones, it's actually a pretty big set you get for free.

The other weakness is the crash cymbals- they sound harsh. I've tried various eqs and reverbs. I think the best thing is to use them sparingly.
 
ashcat_lt said:
Don't know what you mean by "no external mixdown features". EZDrummer can and will send the individual "mics" out to separate tracks in the host. I haven't had any problem with just loading up Superior and rocking. Don't think that part of the workflow would change hardly at all.
Click to expand...

Yeah I said internal not external.
 
ashcat_lt said:
... I haven't had any problem with just loading up Superior and rocking. Don't think that part of the workflow would change hardly at all.
Click to expand...

Much thanks.

I saw the EZ drummer interface last night and it is *very* simple, but effective. I think SD is the go.

Actually, I'm seriously impressed with the sound from Toontrack.

Thanks all.
 
Guitargodgt said:
Yeah I said internal not external.
Click to expand...
Oops! Sorry about that. Too early, too little coffee... I can probably come up with some other excuses! ;)

...But I'm a bit confused by that, too. EZD has less options and control in the internal mixer, but not none. ???
 
ashcat_lt said:
Oops! Sorry about that. Too early, too little coffee... I can probably come up with some other excuses! ;)

...But I'm a bit confused by that, too. EZD has less options and control in the internal mixer, but not none. ???
Click to expand...

yes, the EZD internal mixer is very limited - volume and pan. Sending each 'mic' to a separate track for true mixer control is the way to go. Depending on the EZX you are using, some of the cymbals or snare hits on some of the loops are way over the top, so midi editing is almost always necessary to get a good overall sound, but I've never had to add compression to the EZD tracks to make them sit well in the mix. I suspect that would be required with SD.
Oh another thing - almost always, kill the 'room mic(s)' in EZD and add external reverb instead. I also move the stereo width in so it doesn't sound like the drums are spread across the room, but instead are in the close-together spacing that is normal.
 
Oh yeah! Bleed control is also more limited in EZ drummer.

But the internal mixdown will spit out some crazy options (wav format) if you want them like:

Each cymbal to thier own track.
Bleed on it's own track.


And honestly even though I end up going to my daw for mixing, the internal Sonalksis plugins that are included in the superior mixer are considerably nicer than any other drum plugin I have tried (BFD eco, AD, EZ, Steven Slate).
 
pure.fusion said:
Can anyone comment on the "mixing skills" thing? Is there something extra I have to do with Superior Drums?
Click to expand...

I have both...and you probably already read some of my posts in the other thread, but in a nutshell, SD isn't really harder to mix, it just has more options and you can do more complex mixing with it...or not.

That said, I didn't notice anything mind-blowingly *complex* with the mixing in SD. Spend an hour with it...maybe do a couple of experimental tracks...and by then you'll have it down as much as you will ever need for most things.
After that...SD just gives you some more tweaking options that you don't get in EZ.

As soon as I got SD, I stopped using EZ, though I do have/use all the sound packs that work with EZ (I have a few of them)...and speaking of sounds, the SD out-of-the-box kits are IMO much better than the EZ stock kits...but, there are add-on packs as mentioned, and some are quite good from EZ (depends what styles/pack you are into).
The thing I want to get soon is a couple of the extended "legacy" studio packs for SD...which appear to be as or even more killer then the stock one you get with the program....but they cost a bit more than the EZ packs, though on sale, I've seen them for $75.

Also, with SD you get a lot of additional room/ambient files...I mean a LOT!
I didn't bother installing all that extra stuff, 'cuz it's like another 15 GB worth, and since I'm mostly going to go for dry kits when I do my tracks, and then add my choice of room/amb later, I just left those disks in the box for now, but if you want that variety, it's there.

AFA the MIDI grooves, some or good, some boring, lots of the same with minor variations. I went and got a ton of MIDI grooves from Groove Monkee...and it sure saves a lot of time programming them. Then I just tweak them as needed.

Finally, the simple thing is to set up a couple of "default" kits (unless you need radically different kits with every new song you record)...and then just tweak those couple of kits as needed, or switch out some of the drum/cymbal sounds...but you don't need to reinvent the wheel every time you start a new song.
I mean...when you use a real kit, how many times do you change it radically?
Most likely, if you do a bunch of songs for an album....you want to keep a similar vibe, but if not, it's not hard to get way creative with the EZ/SD drums packs.
 
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