Dynamics control of upright basses

[NeveSSL]

Hi all!

I'm recording a bluegrass/folk type group and on some of my early mixes I'm having a hard time getting the upright bass to come through without just cranking it, which is wreaking havoc on my dynamics (which I generally struggle with anyway). Should I just compress the crap out of it and denoise it (recorded main tracks to 2" and the levels were slightly low, so a bit of noise there) or what?

I can probably upload some of my mixes if need be, but I don't think they're really necessary. FWIW, the notes are pretty even, its just that uprights have so much attack and such a fast decay with no sustain... kinda hard to make it sound like a bass...

Now that I think about it... maybe its just my perception... maybe I'm trying to mix this stuff like rock... hmmm...

Any thoughts are much appreciated and welcomed.

Brandon

 

[M10K]

I'm curious to hear some samples. Also, what was your mic/preamp chain and mic placement? Upright bass is really difficult to record, most of the time it just sounds kinda so-so. I've found that the best way (not that this helps you now..) is to get down in front of it and find the sweet spot. Post some samples I'll try to help.

 

[NeveSSL]

Definitely hear you on the sweet spot.

If memory serves me correctly, we had a TLM103 at the F hole (tried a TLM170... the 103 was much warmer), a SM81 at the fretboard, and a... crap... it was another pencil condenser... Mk40 maybe? All through Millenias and straight to tape from there.

Let me upload... nobody steal this stuff... we've registered our copyrights...

Holy cow... I am trying to type this while watching Knocked Up for the first time... LOL... this movie is ridiculous... random side note... sorry guys... lol

http://www.brandonsreef.com/Various_Files/02-You Don't Deserve This.mp3

Keep in mind there is some pumping going on and the vocals are scratch. I was playing with the comps in the SSL (just an AWS900... used to have a 4kG+... I miss that board... it actually had dynamics on every channel ). There's also some fretnoise from the bass that needs to be edited. I also have about 20 other excuses... so just know these are rough mixes. lol

Let me know what you think.

Brandon

 

[M10K]

Honestly man I think your doubting your abilities a little bit. It sounds pretty good.

Ahh yes, the TLM-103...it's kind of funny but it is the first mic I go to for upright if I have one available. May or may not end up using it...but i usually do.

As for the bass sound it could possibly use a little bit more top end definition (not much, just a little zing) and be little lower in the mix. After all it's not rock music. Definitely try to get rid of some of the pops and slaps, but string noise is part of the upright sound...it's just what they do. Overall though I think you're on the right track.

 

[cello_pudding]

granted i've never recorded upright (except when i was in highschool and i knew pretty much nothing about recording), but doing cello, i've always disliked the F hole spot. it's too bassy/muddy to me. recording out from the bridge may give a more even sound.

you may want to mix and match with a few places.

 

[NeveSSL]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I guess the reason I worry is that the VU meters are bouncing quite a bit, but thats ok I guess. Its not like I'm mastering it.

What you heard was just the 103... so I can bring the 81 up a bit to balance things out some. Again, I was playing with the compressors in the AWS, so I only wanted one mic to worry about.

Brandon

 

[rayc]

Similarly with 'cello puddin I do record 'cello & the f hole is well "f" hole.
Did you consider a bug/piezo so you could mix & blend with the mic capture?
The two things I do are bung on Blockfish & automate the faders - between them I can get a fairly even yet dynamic track. I stopped most compression on the way in - I just couldn't get it right.

 

[mixsit]

It seems you've killed off most all of the transient goodies on pretty much everything. I'd be looking to get all them acoustics their voices back so they can speak. Then find a place (voice) for the bass.

 

[NeveSSL]

"bung on blockfish"? Not sure I'm following you there.

mixsit: Could you elaborate a bit more on the acoustics? Not 100% sure I'm following you there as almost ridiculous as that seems. Just want to make sure I understand exactly what you're saying.

Thanks!

Brandon

 

[mixsit]

Well, I'm not even sure I'm even addressing your initial question re getting the bass to speak well in the mix. But what I hear as a bigger issue overall, that they all sound like like fast attack has removed each instrument's ability to pop out'. When things are allowed their natural punch, they can speak with authority, and leave more room between them.
I.e, upright bass may want to dance and bounce some, and if the others do the same there's a decent chance things will open up' with more room to move in the mix?

 

[NeveSSL]

Ahhh... ok... I see what you're saying.

Great tip... thanks! I'll play around with the attack settings tonight and see what I can come up with. Plus, as I mentioned earlier... I kinda slammed everything with the compressors in the AWS.

Brandon

 

[TexRoadkill]

Try a gentle roll off starting at around 100hz then compress heavily with a slow attack and release.

 

[M10K]

If you're going to get the tracks mastered professionally, I don't suggest rolling the low end off very much. The only reason I say this is because there aren't really any other instruments in either track that are competing with the bass.

 

[NeveSSL]

Awesome. Thanks guys.

I don't think these will be professionally mastered, although one of the band members currently has an internship at Georgetown Mastering. I don't think they give discounts, though... lol... but some studios in Nashville are cool with you using the facilities as an intern, actually... we have a good relationship with most.

Thanks again!

Brandon

 

[rayc]

Blockfish a vst compressor - has some interesting results - free too!
I use it to tame the extremes that might clip if I mix too lud then, as I said, ride the faers so I can keep as much original tone as possible.

 

[NeveSSL]

Aha! That makes much more sense now.

Thanks for the heads up... I'll have to get it.

Brandon