Cheesehead1
Not even trying
Everyday the vast majority of people who drive make it to where they're going without getting into an accident, much less people who are driving for money. You raise a statistically irrelevant argument.
Uber cool!
- Thread starter TAE
- Start date
Everyday the vast majority of people who drive make it to where they're going without getting into an accident, much less people who are driving for money. You raise a statistically irrelevant argument.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
So getting into an accident is the only consideration? What about terrible driving without accidents? Swerving? Looking at cell phones? etc... there are things to judge driving abilities on aside from definitive accidents. Rethink your statement.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
If we want to talk driving ability, the only two accidents I've ever been in where I suffered injuries (luckily both minor) were cabs. One was an NYC Yellow Cab who changed lanes with out checking and the other was a London "mini cab" (sort of like a pre-internet Uber) who ran a red light and T-boned another car.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
This comment bugged me for several reasons, one being the flaw in your logic. Saying that more people do not get into accidents than do (the basis of your argument) is an elementary way of analyzing the situation. It's the same as saying, "every day, more people DO NOT have heart attacks than do, so why worry about heart attacks?". As I said, rethink your argument.
Here is what you're missing. Raw data on licensed/certified cab drivers VS the general public (uber drivers) -
That Wild Taxi Ride Is Safer Than You Think, a Study Says - The New York Times
Highlight quote:
"It concludes that taxi and livery-cab drivers have crash rates one-third lower than drivers of other vehicles."
Now, what were you saying about statistically irrelevant data?
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
Your personal experience does not trump the overall data. I was once hit by lightning - should you be afraid as well?
Cheesehead1
Not even trying
Well you left this out....
So a third less like to get in an accident, but twice as likely to suffer serious injuries.
And if you are afraid of the general public when it comes to driving how do you get around? Are you afraid if a friend, relative or co-worker offers you a ride?
Getting in an accident doesn't mean you did something wrong it can be the other person's fault.
Further more the study breaks it down against the general public, not just Uber drivers. As the article you posted states the financial risks a driver faces makes the driver more likely to drive safe. It's not any kind of stretch to apply this logic to Uber drivers.
I don't know if you've got a dog in this fight, but Uber is an established business that's not going anywhere soon. Lots and lots of people use it and are very satisfied. The Taxi industry is another victim of digital fallout, whether they adapt and recover remains to be seen.
TAE
All you have is now
Andy
Every Uber driver is rated and each time they give some one a ride that person is asked to rate them. . Not all do but it's easy and most do. If they are flaky, get too many compaints or get even one ticket...they're not able to drive for Uber..It is an excellent monitoring system that The Taxi services again don't offer...
I've been using taxi's for 40 years...I was definitely skeptical of Uber until a respected colleague of mine told me how awesome it was...I tried it once and was sold...40 some Ubers later ...still sold.
BTW That colleague has a small manufacturing business...Though not publicized as an option he often uses Uber as a pick up and delivery service. He inputs the starting point as the Parts store that has the part he needs and his business as the destination...He then orders the uber and when the system tells him the drivers coming he calls the driver and explains that he isn't picking up a person, he's picking up a package for him..He tips them an extra $5 very cool saves him sending an employee for the parts and gets the parts to him quickly.
Having never used the service you are basing your opinion on conjecture not real world experience. 1940 system meets 2017 system the old system is like the family getting together to sit around the radio and listen to a show .....
Every Uber driver is rated and each time they give some one a ride that person is asked to rate them. . Not all do but it's easy and most do. If they are flaky, get too many compaints or get even one ticket...they're not able to drive for Uber..It is an excellent monitoring system that The Taxi services again don't offer...
I've been using taxi's for 40 years...I was definitely skeptical of Uber until a respected colleague of mine told me how awesome it was...I tried it once and was sold...40 some Ubers later ...still sold.
BTW That colleague has a small manufacturing business...Though not publicized as an option he often uses Uber as a pick up and delivery service. He inputs the starting point as the Parts store that has the part he needs and his business as the destination...He then orders the uber and when the system tells him the drivers coming he calls the driver and explains that he isn't picking up a person, he's picking up a package for him..He tips them an extra $5 very cool saves him sending an employee for the parts and gets the parts to him quickly.
Having never used the service you are basing your opinion on conjecture not real world experience. 1940 system meets 2017 system the old system is like the family getting together to sit around the radio and listen to a show .....
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
I do 99% of my driving. No, I do not trust most drivers. And you have to realize that the "general public" IS the pool of Uber drivers. Any single person from that data group can be an Uber driver.
Nope, no dog in this fight. Just trying to let someone convince me this is a good thing. As it stands now, certified taxi drivers are safer drivers than the general public (potential uber drivers), and although uber is more convenient for pay and service set up, those features can easily be adapted by taxi services. My whole point is that I still believe certifying these drivers is important and seems to be being overlooked by many.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
So, you ask, "do you Uber"?, I say no and proceed to research, giving facts along the way as to how certified drivers are safer drivers, and you say "it's conjecture"? Did you only want to discuss the subject with devoted Uber followers? You should have said so, then.
Now, the part about using the service to ship products is interesting and first take seems it would be a good way to save on shipping costs - the issue here, of course, is insurance against damaged products. What if the shipped item is worth $20,000? And if it arrives damaged? Will Uber cover that cost? I'm hoping your friend is using Uber for shipping very inexpensive products, or else I'd look into the answer to this question.
Just here to debate. I'm as open as anyone else to a good one...
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
I know it seems that whenever I post I somehow insert myself as the subject, it's not on purpose. Anyway. Skip to the end question/scenario if you want.
I've never used uber. Someone bought the house across the street and turned it rental. The group of young fairly straight out of university professional types who now live there do. They seem to dig it. Their attitude about the whole thing, they seem to feel a normal taxi is kind of low rent.
I don't really have a dog in the fight, but I do have some experience on the legit Taxi side of things....Back 2010(maybe '09, can't remember) business was bad. I had to do something to supplement my income. So, I got a taxi gig. There was no training. I applied for a license with the city. My driving record was clean, so I was granted a license. $40, I think. There was no training involved. I was immediately put in service.
I had a pretty nice vehicle. A grey Mercury Grand Marquis. No clown colors, leather seats, clean, no lettering except for telephone numbers on the rear windshield, light on the top. It almost, almost didn't look like a taxi. There was a $400 lease fee to be paid in advance of each week. You are basically working for yourself. At least in my experience, you set your own hours, chose where to centralize, etc. Your ass had better manage things such that you have that lease every week, gas, change for customers. Lease comes straight off the top before you make a penny, if you're smart.
I was told I could make pretty good dough, if I played it right. It was very competitive. Very. I wasn't going to be bull shitted, told, "Sorry you're not making much money. If you had been on duty at X time you would have made some good money." So, I stayed on duty, from roughly 6 am through 3 am. Sometimes i'd go in a little later than that, but always through 3 am. I forget the exact rules set by the city(?), but you're supposed to only be on duty for I think 12 hours straight without x amount of time off duty. I don't think anyone followed that rule. Some guys almost lived in their taxis. It's not a job, it's not a supplement. it's a fucking lifestyle. I whittled my hours down to roughly 11 am to 3am, give or take. Weekends could almost run 24 hrs, especially Saturday. It was pretty crazy.
I kind of enjoyed it. I knew I wasn't going to stick around in the long run, so it was kind of a temporary adventure. There was nothing "part time" about it.
The other drivers: I don't mean to disparage anyone, but there were some real oddball dudes driving. From my experience, none of those guys had a real life outside of driving. Don't get me wrong, some were okay guys (and gals). It ranged from degenerates to very educated professor types. Sometimes there would be an opening, someone might leave or get fired. They would then hire someone knew. Some of those guys were WTF types. Young stoner types, seemingly serial killer types, borderline retards. Most didn't last. In the end most drivers seemed like reasonably good independent type good people who just wanted to make a living.
--->>>One example of how it might play out with a normal Taxi vs Uber(forgive the long story): There was this retired Navy Seal guy. The rule is, if you pick up someone off the street he is your customer. You are free to give your own contact number. If dispatch hooks you up, that is a customer of the Taxi company. Anyway. This Navy Seal was dispatched, but always requested me. The company could lie, say I was busy on a run, and send someone else, so as to spread the dough around between drivers, but they always sent me. They gave me permission to just give him my personal number. This cat was wild. Many times it would be a run to the liquor store and/or grocery, stop by the sex shop, pick up "his girlfriend" from a bus stop or train station. Loved hookers. He always tipped really well. He had very recently retired and was living in a hotel on the oceanfront. Anyway, one morning, I had been out all night, Saturday night, probably got home at 5am. For a change I was not going to work Sunday, wife's orders. Although I wasn't drinking at all during that time, I drank 3 quick beers that morning and I was out. The phone rang at roughly 8am. He wanted me to go pickup his "girlfriend" when her bus hit the stop, 20 minutes. Reg customers are gold, so I was up and out. Bus had come before I got there. I called him and it was some bizarre conversation I couldn't quite understand, ending in thanks brother man, see you next time, something. I scratches me ol' noggin and went home.
Fast forward: Although I had become one of the most reliable drivers, the owner of the taxi company and I got into an argument about something, can't remember. He basically accused me of lying. I told him he was full of shit. "I'll be there anytime, day or night, but I won't be called a liar" and held my keys out. He calmed. I calmed. He then asked, "Why would you send a taxi from another company if you can't make it, instead of calling on one of our drivers?." Long story short, the Seal had thanked the company for me being a stand up guy and sending a taxi when I couldn't make it. The reality, when the Seal's "girlfriend" got off the bus she asked the first taxi she saw if he was there to pick her up. Of course he said, "Yes". Like I said, very competitive.
Could the same happen with uber? Uber cars are not marked, but some drunk chick(s) could ask some guy if he is her ride. All he has to say is yes. Some serial killer fuck with bad ideas could take advantage of such a possibility. Who knows. Unlikely, probably. Impossible, no. All it would take is somebody with bad motives to stand outside a bar at closing and start yelling "Uber.....Uber". Believe me, it could happen, and probably will.
I've never used uber. Someone bought the house across the street and turned it rental. The group of young fairly straight out of university professional types who now live there do. They seem to dig it. Their attitude about the whole thing, they seem to feel a normal taxi is kind of low rent.
I don't really have a dog in the fight, but I do have some experience on the legit Taxi side of things....Back 2010(maybe '09, can't remember) business was bad. I had to do something to supplement my income. So, I got a taxi gig. There was no training. I applied for a license with the city. My driving record was clean, so I was granted a license. $40, I think. There was no training involved. I was immediately put in service.
I had a pretty nice vehicle. A grey Mercury Grand Marquis. No clown colors, leather seats, clean, no lettering except for telephone numbers on the rear windshield, light on the top. It almost, almost didn't look like a taxi. There was a $400 lease fee to be paid in advance of each week. You are basically working for yourself. At least in my experience, you set your own hours, chose where to centralize, etc. Your ass had better manage things such that you have that lease every week, gas, change for customers. Lease comes straight off the top before you make a penny, if you're smart.
I was told I could make pretty good dough, if I played it right. It was very competitive. Very. I wasn't going to be bull shitted, told, "Sorry you're not making much money. If you had been on duty at X time you would have made some good money." So, I stayed on duty, from roughly 6 am through 3 am. Sometimes i'd go in a little later than that, but always through 3 am. I forget the exact rules set by the city(?), but you're supposed to only be on duty for I think 12 hours straight without x amount of time off duty. I don't think anyone followed that rule. Some guys almost lived in their taxis. It's not a job, it's not a supplement. it's a fucking lifestyle. I whittled my hours down to roughly 11 am to 3am, give or take. Weekends could almost run 24 hrs, especially Saturday. It was pretty crazy.
I kind of enjoyed it. I knew I wasn't going to stick around in the long run, so it was kind of a temporary adventure. There was nothing "part time" about it.
The other drivers: I don't mean to disparage anyone, but there were some real oddball dudes driving. From my experience, none of those guys had a real life outside of driving. Don't get me wrong, some were okay guys (and gals). It ranged from degenerates to very educated professor types. Sometimes there would be an opening, someone might leave or get fired. They would then hire someone knew. Some of those guys were WTF types. Young stoner types, seemingly serial killer types, borderline retards. Most didn't last. In the end most drivers seemed like reasonably good independent type good people who just wanted to make a living.
--->>>One example of how it might play out with a normal Taxi vs Uber(forgive the long story): There was this retired Navy Seal guy. The rule is, if you pick up someone off the street he is your customer. You are free to give your own contact number. If dispatch hooks you up, that is a customer of the Taxi company. Anyway. This Navy Seal was dispatched, but always requested me. The company could lie, say I was busy on a run, and send someone else, so as to spread the dough around between drivers, but they always sent me. They gave me permission to just give him my personal number. This cat was wild. Many times it would be a run to the liquor store and/or grocery, stop by the sex shop, pick up "his girlfriend" from a bus stop or train station. Loved hookers. He always tipped really well. He had very recently retired and was living in a hotel on the oceanfront. Anyway, one morning, I had been out all night, Saturday night, probably got home at 5am. For a change I was not going to work Sunday, wife's orders. Although I wasn't drinking at all during that time, I drank 3 quick beers that morning and I was out. The phone rang at roughly 8am. He wanted me to go pickup his "girlfriend" when her bus hit the stop, 20 minutes. Reg customers are gold, so I was up and out. Bus had come before I got there. I called him and it was some bizarre conversation I couldn't quite understand, ending in thanks brother man, see you next time, something. I scratches me ol' noggin and went home.
Fast forward: Although I had become one of the most reliable drivers, the owner of the taxi company and I got into an argument about something, can't remember. He basically accused me of lying. I told him he was full of shit. "I'll be there anytime, day or night, but I won't be called a liar" and held my keys out. He calmed. I calmed. He then asked, "Why would you send a taxi from another company if you can't make it, instead of calling on one of our drivers?." Long story short, the Seal had thanked the company for me being a stand up guy and sending a taxi when I couldn't make it. The reality, when the Seal's "girlfriend" got off the bus she asked the first taxi she saw if he was there to pick her up. Of course he said, "Yes". Like I said, very competitive.
Could the same happen with uber? Uber cars are not marked, but some drunk chick(s) could ask some guy if he is her ride. All he has to say is yes. Some serial killer fuck with bad ideas could take advantage of such a possibility. Who knows. Unlikely, probably. Impossible, no. All it would take is somebody with bad motives to stand outside a bar at closing and start yelling "Uber.....Uber". Believe me, it could happen, and probably will.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
If I am not mistaken, the locality sets the price per mile, minute, etc.
TAE
All you have is now
Great Story Mick! A real insiders perspective...
On the Uber wrong driver thing, unless you are a totally oblivious that would be hard to have happen being as when the driver accepts the ride you are sent a text with the drivers picture, name and license number.....again one of the many superior features of Uber over TeraTaxi..
On the Uber wrong driver thing, unless you are a totally oblivious that would be hard to have happen being as when the driver accepts the ride you are sent a text with the drivers picture, name and license number.....again one of the many superior features of Uber over TeraTaxi..
TAE
All you have is now
Yo Andy,
Sorry didn't mean to offend on the conjecture thing.... Your thoughts and perspective are fine. I was more addressing your comment to Pinky earlier
where you said "Nope, seems like I got it down pretty good." Without actually using the service or REALLY doing some serious due diligence your statements are based upon conjecture.
definition: an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
On the insurance thing I don't think anybody's going to be having some stranger in an uber car picking up a Rolex for them...but you could and it would probably get to you being as you have the drivers complete personal contact information available via Uber.
He's in the stone business and has the drivers pick up supplies n shit probably not more than a few hundred bucks and pretty useless to anyone not in the stone business.....faster than sending an employee and cheaper
Sorry didn't mean to offend on the conjecture thing.... Your thoughts and perspective are fine. I was more addressing your comment to Pinky earlier
where you said "Nope, seems like I got it down pretty good." Without actually using the service or REALLY doing some serious due diligence your statements are based upon conjecture.
definition: an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
On the insurance thing I don't think anybody's going to be having some stranger in an uber car picking up a Rolex for them...but you could and it would probably get to you being as you have the drivers complete personal contact information available via Uber.
He's in the stone business and has the drivers pick up supplies n shit probably not more than a few hundred bucks and pretty useless to anyone not in the stone business.....faster than sending an employee and cheaper
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
That's conjecture, Mick. Do all your research first
TAE, it's just odd to throw around claims of not knowing the whole scoop...like I said, did you only want to discuss with those who know every detail and are fans of the service? That seems boring! Sorry, but I won't be reading the entire wiki and bio of Uber before I post; no reason we can't discuss it here, like I was trying to do. We're good, just a tad annoyed. No biggie.
Mick, great story man! Not having an exam/cert alludes to smaller city, ya? Def not NYC, LA, or Chicago-type size. Those certainly require some type of exam...I'm rather positive, anyway.
I'm still not sold on the safeness of Uber. Apparently, most media outlets aren't either, though this stood out:
"Amid a fight over whether Uber drivers should be required to submit to fingerprint checks, Austin, Texas, has released some information. According to a document compiled by the city, in 2015 Uber drivers allegedly were involved in 13 sexual assaults and one rape; taxi drivers, five; and Lyft drivers, six. One sexual assault was listed as Uber or Lyft."
- Which is safer _ Uber or a taxi? There's no clear answer
"So while taxi companies check a prospective driver's fingerprint records against a database that theoretically (more on that in a minute) includes a person's complete criminal history in the United States, Uber background checks use a database that can only go back seven years for some information. Late last year, San Francisco District Attorney George Gascon called Uber's background checks "completely worthless," according to the Los Angeles Times. And several Uber and UberX drivers in the Washington, D.C., area said Uber's background checks were hardly rigorous."
- https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/03/are-taxis-safer-than-uber/386207/
TAE
All you have is now
Andy
I never implied or said only people who were experts on the topics should post in this thread...You did imply by saying "Nope, seems like I got it down pretty good." that you had an informed understanding of how Uber works. Though you may have thought you did based upon your comments it was clear you "didn't" "have it down pretty good" and I was just pointing that out.
In regards to safety, the link I posted for you was not a Wiki, it was a link to Uber explaining the lengths they go to to ensure your Uber driver is not a dangerous criminal or someone with a bad driving record. In your previous post you went to the effort of digging up statistics of Taxi drivers vs regular public driver and then implied that Uber drivers are just part of that general public statistic by saying "Any single person from that data group can be an Uber driver. " That statement is false. Only drivers with good driving records and clean records are allowed...that is definitely not any single person from that data group....
I never implied or said only people who were experts on the topics should post in this thread...You did imply by saying "Nope, seems like I got it down pretty good." that you had an informed understanding of how Uber works. Though you may have thought you did based upon your comments it was clear you "didn't" "have it down pretty good" and I was just pointing that out.
In regards to safety, the link I posted for you was not a Wiki, it was a link to Uber explaining the lengths they go to to ensure your Uber driver is not a dangerous criminal or someone with a bad driving record. In your previous post you went to the effort of digging up statistics of Taxi drivers vs regular public driver and then implied that Uber drivers are just part of that general public statistic by saying "Any single person from that data group can be an Uber driver. " That statement is false. Only drivers with good driving records and clean records are allowed...that is definitely not any single person from that data group....
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
The very first night I drove bouncers bounced some drunk dude's head off the side of my taxi. They ended up on top of my front hood. I was not happy. Fucked up my side view mirror and had to wipe blood off the side of my door. I caught up to the owner(he also drove) and told him all about it. His response, in an Albanian accent, side glance and maniacal grin, "On your first night? Impressive."
Anyway.....I could be wrong, but training might be a union thing, a requirement. There was no union here, at least not when I drove. Come to think of it, if I recall correctly there was a background check, and supposedly I was responsible for payment of the fee for the check. The company I went to work for waved my fee. In fact, they waved the lease fee for the first week....."get yourself a nice GPS". A couple of Albanian brothers owned the company. They were pretty cool, but I never fully trusted them. I know for a fact they would lie to some customers who specifically requested me....."he's already on a run", "he's not on duty", etc. I am a fairly normal looking guy, not too hard to look at, if I do say so myself. I think they really wanted me in one of their taxis. So they did make sure I made good money.
I live in Virginia Beach. There is VB, Norfolk, Chesapeake, and Portsmouth. It's not NY, but it's not exactly small. I would never drive in any of those places, other than VB. As licenses go, at least here, you can only pickup in the city in which your are licensed. You can drop off anywhere....even all the way to New York City, if willing. Some companies do have drivers who are licensed in multi cities. I hung mostly at the oceanfront, 90%. Once the summer was gone (which sort of runs through the end of Oct), I was out. Damned if I was going to sit for any extended period of time waiting for a fare, or spend a holiday behind the wheel of a fucking taxi. Man, I kind of feel bad for some of those guys. Reality is, from talking to a lot of them, if they weren't driving they would probably be spending the holiday alone. It was actually a lot of fun. It'd be fucked up if that was all you had going for yourself, though.
Anyway.....I could be wrong, but training might be a union thing, a requirement. There was no union here, at least not when I drove. Come to think of it, if I recall correctly there was a background check, and supposedly I was responsible for payment of the fee for the check. The company I went to work for waved my fee. In fact, they waved the lease fee for the first week....."get yourself a nice GPS". A couple of Albanian brothers owned the company. They were pretty cool, but I never fully trusted them. I know for a fact they would lie to some customers who specifically requested me....."he's already on a run", "he's not on duty", etc. I am a fairly normal looking guy, not too hard to look at, if I do say so myself. I think they really wanted me in one of their taxis. So they did make sure I made good money.
I live in Virginia Beach. There is VB, Norfolk, Chesapeake, and Portsmouth. It's not NY, but it's not exactly small. I would never drive in any of those places, other than VB. As licenses go, at least here, you can only pickup in the city in which your are licensed. You can drop off anywhere....even all the way to New York City, if willing. Some companies do have drivers who are licensed in multi cities. I hung mostly at the oceanfront, 90%. Once the summer was gone (which sort of runs through the end of Oct), I was out. Damned if I was going to sit for any extended period of time waiting for a fare, or spend a holiday behind the wheel of a fucking taxi. Man, I kind of feel bad for some of those guys. Reality is, from talking to a lot of them, if they weren't driving they would probably be spending the holiday alone. It was actually a lot of fun. It'd be fucked up if that was all you had going for yourself, though.
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andrushkiwt
Well-known member
"Good" driving record isn't measurable. We need to see the actual items they're looking for. And criminal history is questionable, given the data from the news sources linked. Also, found this:
-------------------------------------------------------
Uber background check and driving record check criteria
Your background must meet these conditions:
A minimum of 1 year U.S. licensing history (if under 23 years old, must have at least 3 years licensing history)
A clean Motor Vehicle Report (MVR) with no more than 3 incidents in the past 3 years
No DUIs and no reckless driving
California Uber drivers must not have a DUI in the last 10 years.
A clean criminal background check with no felonies or misdemeanors involving theft, violence or drugs in a given time frame
No speeding violations for driving 20 mph or greater over the speed limit in the past 3 years.
Uber does not perform a credit check
Starting November 2016, Uber is now allowing some non-violent felons to become drivers.
- Will you pass the Uber background check? | RideSharingDriver