Trumps ObamaCare rollout looks even worse?

CoolCat

CoolCat

Well-known member
So the penaltys get increased if you cant afford insurance in the first place?

If I get this right, a person who doesnt make much and has a employer who doesnt pay for medical insurance, is fined for not having insurance, that they cant afford. (assuming if everyone was rich they would prefer to have the deluxe insurance plan like the capital hill gang.)

Old Anal pounding was around $695 year in fines.
New Anal Pounding will be $1100 year in fines.

None of the fines will go towards medical insurance for the poor.

if you are a fat sloth white man in a suit politician on capital hill you have the taxpayers pay for your deluxe medical plan.

I think this is what the "New Plan" is. Not much different than the old plan really.
 
I thought they were eliminating the individual mandate - so yes, penalties don't go to helping poor people afford coverage. But the catch is that they are going to return us to allowing insurance companies to charge you way more than the other customers (up to 30%).

The whole thing is nuts - it is based on tax credits - which does little or nothing for the bottom 40-some percent of the population because they don't pay net federal income taxes. These are the people who need it most.

The Affordable Care Act limits premiums for older health insurance customers to pay as much as 3 times as much as young people. The Republican plan makes it 5 times.

I don't think the Republicans care about coverage at all. They just want a tax cut for their ultra rich campaign donors - and that is the foundation of their plan.

BTW Trump promised to expand health insurance coverage to everyone. Yes. Everyone:

 
Politics, check
Race, check

Dang, so close. If you'd have thrown in religion, or maybe even a random G-damn, you'd have hit the trifecta.

Pretty sure if you are a fat sloth man, or woman, red, blue, burgundy, or of any shade or color under the rainbow in a suit politician on capital hill you also have the taxpayers pay for your deluxe medical plan. Is not just "fat sloth white man".

This racist and sexist shit is getting tiresome. Feeling triggered. Don't make me start a thread.
 
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It's a turd replacing a turd with a lot more shit. The affordable care act was written by insurance companies and this one is no different other than it favors insurance companies even more. I have no doubt they are going to pull what the Democrats did as well and tell the plebs that "we have to pass it to see what's in it."

I wish they would stop fixing healthcare. They are remarkably bad at it.
 
It baffles me that 'smart' people, people much smarter than I, can't (or won't) see the basic underlying problem with healthcare.

The cost.

Healthcare has become incredibly, criminally overpriced.
When a hospital can get away with charging 10 dollars for an asprin or 20 bucks for an extra pillow you are in the territory of criminal in my opinion.
And I'm not making these figures up. They're actually the prices charged to a friend who was in the hospital for cancer treatment.

He was terminal. They cleaned him out, and when his insurance refused to cover any more costs, they started liquidating all their assets and sold the house. When the money ran out he was discarged and a couple of days later he died.

The widow was left with nothing.
The damn hospital bled them dry.

That's the root problem with healthcare, and none of these healthcare bills will take care of that.
 
CoolCat said:
If I get this right, a person who doesnt make much and has a employer who doesnt pay for medical insurance, is fined for not having insurance, that they cant afford. (assuming if everyone was rich they would prefer to have the deluxe insurance plan like the capital hill gang.)
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Hey, they called for the country to be "run like a business"... :) So, here they have it. Oh, the irony. :wtf:
 
RFR said:
It baffles me that 'smart' people, people much smarter than I, can't (or won't) see the basic underlying problem with healthcare.

The cost.

Healthcare has become incredibly, criminally overpriced.
When a hospital can get away with charging 10 dollars for an asprin or 20 bucks for an extra pillow you are in the territory of criminal in my opinion.
And I'm not making these figures up. They're actually the prices charged to a friend who was in the hospital for cancer treatment.

He was terminal. They cleaned him out, and when his insurance refused to cover any more costs, they started liquidating all their assets and sold the house. When the money ran out he was discarged and a couple of days later he died.

The widow was left with nothing.
The damn hospital bled them dry.

That's the root problem with healthcare, and none of these healthcare bills will take care of that.
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Actually the affordable care act removed the spending cap from insurance plans. Prior to that it was perfectly legal for health insurance companies to set a limit on how much they would spend on an individual on an annual or lifetime basis (there may be some plans with caps that were grandfathered in or given waivers). Prior to the ACA, 45% of insured Americans had spending limits in their plans. Typically this would be between $1 and $5 million depending on the state.
 
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I agree that our health system is doomed because it is too expensive. Unfortunately, the #1 reason - and no other factor is remotely close - why it is so expensive is because it isn't one huge Government program. If we simply eliminated the employer based health insurance system and replaced it with any of the systems being deployed by Governments in any other wealthy industrialized county, we would save trillions. It would also give more leverage to workers while simultaneously making it easier and more efficient to run a business or start a new one.

But half of us are ideologically opposed to a Government system regardless of the math. They think private insurance companies are the answer despite the evidence of failure staring us right in the face. And so we are painted in to the corner.
 
Mick Doobie said:
Politics, check
Race, check

Dang, so close. If you'd have thrown in religion, or maybe even a random G-damn, you'd have hit the trifecta.
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As far as I can tell, judging by their results, political, racial and religious ideologies are interchangeable. Any one of those three (four when you include nationalism) puts us into the conflict zone. That is, whenever people are thinking from the perspective of a given tribal identity they are primed for conflict with people thinking from the perspective of any other tribal identity. One would think that 4700 years (since the first recorded war) would be enough for us to see the repeating pattern, but apparently it's not enough.
 
ibleedburgundy said:
If we simply eliminated the employer based health insurance system and replaced it with any of the systems being deployed by Governments in any other wealthy industrialized county, we would save trillions.
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But if we save trillions someone is going to lose trillions. If they're making trillions now they aren't going to give it up willingly, and they can use those trillions to acquire power that they can use to insure (heh) that they keep getting their trillions. What's good for most people is utterly irrelevant.
 
Yup^^^

The underlying issue is GREED.

All the big boys have figured out how to profit handsomely.

With healthcare you're stuck paying for it one way or another. Either your own care or other's. You pay directly or indirectly

We pay, the boys up top get rich.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
But if we save trillions someone is going to lose trillions. If they're making trillions now they aren't going to give it up willingly, and they can use those trillions to acquire power that they can use to insure (heh) that they keep getting their trillions. What's good for most people is utterly irrelevant.
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That's true. Changing the system would also eliminate tons of jobs. That transition would put more $$$ in the pockets of the average person so maybe increased spending would make up most of the difference. I don't know.
 
Sadly I think for any REAL change to happen the whole system needs to collapse.
Just like an alcoholic or a junkie has to hit rock bottom and climb back up into the land of sober living.

The system needs to hit rock bottom and get rebuilt for everyone's benefit.

That would be painful.
 
I remember the 'good old days". :)

We had a family doctor, he made house calls.

He was picked because he was local, good, and well liked.


He didn't have a BMW, a Ferrari, or a Porsche. He didn't live in a muti-million dollar mansion, but in a house in your neighborhood where he also had his office.
He didn't play golf, or hang out with other rich people. Just a good old fashioned doctor that built a practice in his community.

He treated and knew everyone in the family, He knew everyone's medical history and as a person.

You'd call him up, he'd come over with his black bag day or night and everyone was respectful of him having a life too, and there weren't any 3 am wake-up calls.

He came over, treated you, said hi to everyone, asked the other kids how school was, remarked at how much you'd grown since he saw you last, and then finished up and said his goodbyes.

Dad said thank you, they shook hands and dad paid him. Usually about 25 bucks with a few bucks more for medicine.

If you had something serious he'd send you to the hospital.

Everyone stayed healthy and no one went broke.

He'd stay as your family doctor till the day he retired.

Ah, them be the days :D

Long gone now.
 
RFR said:
Sadly I think for any REAL change to happen the whole system needs to collapse.
Just like an alcoholic or a junkie has to hit rock bottom and climb back up into the land of sober living.

The system needs to hit rock bottom and get rebuilt for everyone's benefit.

That would be painful.
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Hitting rock bottom may be one way people find the motivation to quit. It's certainly not the only way. I don't think collapse of the system is necessary, and if it happens there's no guarantee of a desirable outcome.
 
I can kind of agree with that.
It's like when a revolution occurs in a country. The 'replacement" gov't is often worse than the previously toppled regime.

Unfortunately I have no answers, or power to change things.

I agree with the 'repeal and replace' philosophy. But replace it with what?

This is something that should have been thoroughly thought out years earlier.

I can't imagine that a good replacement got all figured out in 50 days.

I expect more of the same to a large degree, and the root cause (the price of heatlhcare) is not being addressed.

I still say that's the damn problem. It costs too much and is completely unaffordable without insurance.

The cost of services is what is completely out of control. Healthcare bills (legistative) are just a band aid.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Hitting rock bottom may be one way people find the motivation to quit. It's certainly not the only way. I don't think collapse of the system is necessary, and if it happens there's no guarantee of a desirable outcome.
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Some people's bottom's are 6 feet below.

I don't see a good outcome based on the wealth/power gap and other factors (dumbass populace).
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Which is the inevitable effect of crippling the education system with junk ideas like self esteem based teaching, and exactly what you want if you're in power and you want to stay there.
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And science denial.

Let's see how many advances in computing technology come about from thinking the world is 6,000 years old.
 
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